Lineage question

[Hell Yeah]

I have a few boots I want to up here but I don't have any information prior to my CDR. If I rip these will my CDR be acceptable as the first thing in the lineage? The only thing I can usually tell is if its SBD, FM, or Aud but I have no clue who taped or transferred it let alone what equipment was used.

I also have DVD's that are the same way. I have no lineage prior to my receiving it in a trade and the trades were done many years ago so tracking down lineage would be impossible.

Thanks for your time

[AAR.oner]

depends if the shows are already circulating with known lineage, or if its a more recent show where the lineage should be available...also, be sure to use an approved error-correcting ripper and include the extraction log with the torrent [for PCs use EAC...for Mac use XLD or xACT]

if there's no better source circulating its okay to put somethin like this:
PC -- SBD/AUD/FM/etc > ? > CDR > EAC > wavs > Trader's Little Helper > flac
Mac -- SBD/AUD/FM/etc > ? > CDR > xACT [or XLD] > wavs > xACT > flac

again, its customary to include the extraction log, and checksums for both the wavs & flacs

[Hell Yeah]

Ok, What if there may be known lineage but I don't have it. How would I go about finding it? (I still do snail trades and even though a show may be newer, I still have no idea of the lineage LOL)

The pratfalls of snail trading :(

[tay666]

Ok, What if there may be known lineage but I don't have it. How would I go about finding it? (I still do snail trades and even though a show may be newer, I still have no idea of the lineage LOL)

The pratfalls of snail trading :(


Depends on who the artist is.
Some bands have a large knowledgable following and there are websites devoted to all the known live recordings in circulation. Complete with lineage and taper info.

Sometimes you can ask around, and someone might know the lineage.

This isn't a problem unique to snail mail trading.
Lots of shows like that show up on places like DIME and Piratesbay, etc.
On the other hand, I do snail mail trading, and almost always get the lineage from the person I am trading with.
So, it really depends on where you get your stuff from. Not so much how you get it.

[paddington]

Shows seeded at TTD must have lineage.

If you're snailmail trading, you should be receiving lineage just the same... digital sharing is an offshoot from tape trading, not the inverse. Snailmail traders (and all traders) worth their salt will include known lineage of SOME type.


CDR>EAC>FLAC really isn't any lineage at all... just says "hey, I found this stack of CDRs on a spindle and I've ripped them all to share!"


Please take some time and research what you have and see if there is any known lineage version circulating. If there is, yours is trash - because you have no idea if it is the same or not.

Of course.. there are exceptions to every rule. Please do the legwork as well as you can and get permission from a mod before posting something with no known lineage.

thanks for asking

[Hell Yeah]

Thanks for your reply. However, just because someone didn't send me lineage doesn't mean the show is "trash". I traded for years with reputable traders and for many years there was no need for exact lineage. This trend of saving/requesting is something that has come into play in just the last few years with the internet. My trading goes back to the 1980's and I can't think of a time when lineage was even that we asked for let alone traders supplied.

If you don't want me ripping CD's and sharing them here that's fine, I'll respect that. I do have many cassette transfers to CD but I have no idea (other than the name brand of the cassette and transfer equpment) what the recording lineage is and It's been too long to go back and ask for it now.

I have a feeling this board may not be for me sharing wise unless it's something new (2005 or newer) and I have the detailed lineage for it.

[paddington]

You didn't read it completely.

Don't be defensive. I wasn't offensive. Have another read?

[tonebloke]

I do understand what your saying J so will pay more attention to what I give to the community.

[rspencer]

This trend of saving/requesting is something that has come into play in just the last few years with the internet.

Completely untrue. :nono:

Where do you think all the generational info comes from? From people who kept lineage while trading cassettes. There have always been those who care about lineage, & those who don't.

[tay666]

I have a feeling this board may not be for me sharing wise unless it's something new (2005 or newer) and I have the detailed lineage for it.


While some of the rules and systems in place may seem oppressive, or even a bit overboard. This is really a very good site.

Personally, I don't agree with some of the policies here either.
But this isn't my site, so I play by their rules and actually have a bit of fun here. I've also gotten a few excellent shows here, and lots of great information and advice.

Not to mention, you have to admit, they go the extra mile to preserve quality and improve it. The closer you get to the actual source material, the better the odds nothing has been screwed up along the way.

[boxedart]

However, just because someone didn't send me lineage doesn't mean the show is "trash". I traded for years with reputable traders and for many years there was no need for exact lineage. This trend of saving/requesting is something that has come into play in just the last few years with the internet. My trading goes back to the 1980's and I can't think of a time when lineage was even that we asked for let alone traders supplied.

I would agree with most of that comment. I used to be heavy into collecting/trading back in the pre-internet days. I don't think I ever asked for, nor recieved, any detail on what was recorded/how. And vice versa. Most of us used a quality scale of P/G/VG/EX with a - or +. Same with Video. And what type of/brand of tape the copies were made on. (TDK mostly) The request for accurate lineage has held up me torrenting a lot of stuff.

On the other hand one of the things I really like about TDD is they make serious attempts at quality seeds being put out, and part of that is the lineage. Yes some people make wild claims saying their material is from the "master" when it cleary isn't but when you are talking about material that is over 20 years old it is not something that can always be verified. For example I have some shows that I could have seeded here but I never did because all I know is I got them from the guy who taped them. I never asked how he taped them, or what gear he used, or what deck he used to make my copies. One thing I did know is that they never popped up here or at other sites. About a month ago one of these shows popped up and I said to the uploader "Hey, I think I have this" and he said "I only traded it to a few people years ago so you can't have this." Well I then asked a question about another show and the reply was "Hey, I taped that too" so it turns out that in 2010 I re-established contact with someone I had traded with back in the 80's - and now there is no need for my first gen copies to be torrented because he has torrented his masters...with the full story about what gear he used...almost 30 years after the fact. So on the one hand it would have sucked had I tried to up one of his shows here and it got pulled because I did not know the full lineage but on the other hand we now have it and instead of everyone having a first gen copy they have a master copy.

I guess what Iam saying is that sometimes the community will loose out on getting older shows unless the lineage can be laid out in better terms than "Bootleg/Vinyl/CD/Silver/Casette > PC > TDD"

[sabkisscrue]

Most people dont know or even care about the lineage of what they are uploading or even what they are downloading, that goes for traders in general and thats not only in recent years as Hell Yeah suggested but for 10 years or so. I see a lot of stuff on torrents not just this site where the person doesnt know the lineage or makes it up or the lineage is clearly incorrect (Aerosmith Chicago 94 video) or the actual equipment used for the transfer isnt posted.
Ive always cared about generation and ive always looked for that information so this is something I do care about and I have no issue with posting a complete and accurate lineage on every torrent but im one of the few who is even capable of doing that.

[sabkisscrue]

Depends on who the artist is.
Some bands have a large knowledgable following and there are websites devoted to all the known live recordings in circulation. Complete with lineage and taper info.

I highly agree with most of that except the last part "Complete with lineage and taper info". What groups are you talking about?

[direwolf-pgh]

trade info files are reference not gospel when dealing with classic recordings. if that bothers you consider another hobby.
its not too terribly difficult to determine tape hiss, dolby, or record surface noise in classic recordings -- if comparing sources of a show.

everything is so clean today its all gravy.. dont believe it? try trading cassettes or buying old vinyl boots.

lineage is there to help identify, but in the end, let your ears do the talking and turn it up.

[Hell Yeah]

I agree 100% with you :thumbsup

[dcbullet]

I have a feeling this board may not be for me sharing wise unless it's something new (2005 or newer) and I have the detailed lineage for it.

Yes, 2005 or newer needs complete lineage:

From the seeding policy:

Starting June 1, 2009, if a show is dated after January 1, 2005, it MUST have complete and accurate lineage. There is really no reason for a show taped in the last couple of years to not have this info. In other words, unknown gen CDR > EAC > wav > flac type of lineage will no longer be allowed for shows taped after that date. (If you have questions about a particular show, please PM a Moderator.)

[tay666]

I highly agree with most of that except the last part "Complete with lineage and taper info". What groups are you talking about?

Well, I am mostly into Iron Maiden.
And I think I should have worded it a little better.
What I meant was when known that info is listed also.

Yeah, a lot of the early 80's stuff is still up in the air. But through hard work by myself and several other dedicated tapers/traders we have managed to surface a lot of older masters in the past 5 years. Problem is, even the tapers can't remember what they used half the time.
Se, ever if we know it is from the master, we don't know what was used to record it :(

[sabkisscrue]

Well, I am mostly into Iron Maiden.
And I think I should have worded it a little better.
What I meant was when known that info is listed also.

Yeah, a lot of the early 80's stuff is still up in the air. But through hard work by myself and several other dedicated tapers/traders we have managed to surface a lot of older masters in the past 5 years. Problem is, even the tapers can't remember what they used half the time.
Se, ever if we know it is from the master, we don't know what was used to record it :(

Are you referring to video? Because I can tell you most of those masters are unavailable or unattainable because the filmers are long gone and unavailable and the few that are around good luck trying to get their masters, its not easy. I deal with the few old school guys still around. Ive transferred and have had authored many Metallica masters and 1st gens as well as other groups like VH and Kiss.

[Hell Yeah]

Are you referring to video? Because I can tell you most of those masters are unavailable or unattainable because the filmers are long gone and unavailable and the few that are around good luck trying to get their masters, its not easy.



I don't even know tay666 but I can tell he was talking about audio not video LOL

tapers are NOT filmers sabkisscrue

[sabkisscrue]

I don't even know tay666 but I can tell he was talking about audio not video LOL

tapers are NOT filmers sabkisscrue

He only said it was Maiden and I know what the Maiden community has been doing with video. Thats what I thought he was talking about, smart ass.

[rollenran]

what about Sliver CD's

Like Radio Shows ( Pre FM )

Where It Goes

Sliver CD > EAC > Wav > Flac frontend > Flac

[rspencer]

What about them?

[rollenran]

that would the right lineage

[tay666]

I don't even know tay666 but I can tell he was talking about audio not video LOL

tapers are NOT filmers sabkisscrue


Yeah. Audio.
I'm just now starting to dabble in the video trading end. Doubt I will ever be a filmer. It takes a certain type to make that sacrifice, and I am definitely not that type.
And yeah, video is a lot tougher. Don't really start seeing masters or 1st, 2nd gen material in the Maiden community until you get into the 86/87 era,

[AAR.oner]

that would the right lineage

Yes that'd be right...remember to save & include the extraction log when you torrent/trade it