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Matlin Zeitler
2010-01-04, 03:51 PM
I am perturbed by the TTD's apparent policy of removing torrents that were recorded on MD. If the master was recorded in the SP mode of a MD recorder, why is that not good enough?

If someone else comes along with the same show, recorded in 24bit, fine. But to not accept an MD master for a show that nobody else posted is self-defeating.

Apparently a number of people appreciated my recent Outlaws post. Why it was removed without so much as a good reason, is beyond me. Yes, I recorded it with MD, as all of my shows over the last eleven years. If I dub from an MD master to a CD, with an optical link, this recording is as lossless as you'll find.

Someone wants to give me some insight, great. I am feeling rather disappointed here.

schmoe75
2010-01-04, 03:54 PM
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45685

Matlin Zeitler
2010-01-04, 04:03 PM
I shake my head at this policy. I fully disclose the fact that my recording is from MD. It sounds excellent and provides a unique document of the show I attended. If someone has hearing too good for my ATRAC original, they can chose not to download. Simple. You guys don't seem to trust the community here to police itself. What a sad lack of trust.

I mean if I recorded a show in 2010 with my ProWalkman cassette, would that be ok? If frequencies above 15,000 hz are missing, isn't that lossy, too? And what prevents that recording from being something the community interested in music would reject? Are the technocrats now deciding what is music and what is not?

-Matlin Zeitler

daddyray
2010-01-04, 04:14 PM
share it elsewhere...problem solved.

Audioarchivist
2010-01-04, 08:32 PM
I have used ATRAC MD's as well for years, and now they have been taken over by better gear that is actually cheaper than what I originally paid for 1 of my oldschool MD decks.

In this day and age of (relatively) cheap lossless hi-res digital recorders, there's no real reason to continue using a format that's really been dead or seriously dying and flawed by being "almost" as lossy as eMPty3 files.

Having said that, I still haven't made the switch to a Microtrack / Edirol R09 / what-have-you yet as I'm a broke-ass guy right now. Then again, I'm also too broke to afford any shows!

Older atrac MD recordings are still grandfather claused in and are still allowed. Stuff recorded before Jan 1 2008 on older MD decks is still ok, since there weren't that many new hi-res lossless digital recorders out there. I'm preparing my MD recording of a Van Halen show from dec 5 2007 in Vancouver to post here (just under the wire!) but technology (and times) have changed. Older recordings can stand, but today there's not much reason to continue using these crappy lossy things that have been outdone 100 times over by tons of 24bit 96khz wav recorders.

This site is trying to be at the forefront of a higher standard of standardness (to steal an old bootleg label's tagline) and keeping quality to an amazing level. Although I had my doubts originally, I see their point.

There are lots and lots of other trader sites similar to this one that haven't got these elevated levels of excellence. Please feel free to share your newer atrac MD's there.

Analog gear is analog gear - it doesn't literally throw away data to make the music fit the format in the same way that MD atrac does. It doesn't necessarily have a hard and fast set bandwidth limit like atrac does (or the dreaded eMPty3 files do!) so a skilled user can still pull of some excellent frequency response and dynamics from tape.

Matlin Zeitler
2010-01-04, 08:48 PM
After all the reasoning I've heard about the MD issue, I present you with the following scenario:

Taper A brings his Edirol to the sky-blue seats at Madison Square Garden and tapes band Y. The people to the left and right of Taper A are less interested in the show than their beers. They get talking. Loudly.
Taper B brings his MD to the tenth row center of the same concert. He is surrounded by people into it. The PA sound is loud enough to drown out any audience chatter. Both tapers happen to be using the same microphones.

Guess whose recording will make the more listenable and appealing recording. If you guessed Taper B, you are correct. But if you are on TTD, you will only get to hear Taper A's recording. That's a loss to the TTD community, if you ask me.

I can't see how an MD recording with proper lineage doesn't have a place on TTD--in the absence of a viable alternative.

dcbullet
2010-01-04, 09:25 PM
Matlin:

You are right, you can present a scenario where the MD ATRAC will sound better than a lossless version. However, the purpose of this particular site is to push the quality forward. If Taper B brought his Edirol, it would be better than if he brought his ATRAC MD, right? It is a standard we decided on after much discussion. I know that it leaves some people cold. I'm sorry for that, but we aren't going to change this rule.

rspencer
2010-01-04, 10:15 PM
Matlin:

You are right, you can present a scenario where the MD ATRAC will sound better than a lossless version. However, the purpose of this particular site is to push the quality forward. If Taper B brought his Edirol, it would be better than if he brought his ATRAC MD, right? It is a standard we decided on after much discussion. I know that it leaves some people cold. I'm sorry for that, but we aren't going to change this rule.

Very much. Very heated. And with plenty of member input.

Did everyone agree? No. And when you set standards high, that's usually the case.

AAR.oner
2010-01-04, 10:45 PM
This site is trying to be at the forefront of a higher standard of standardness (to steal an old bootleg label's tagline) and keeping quality to an amazing level. Although I had my doubts originally, I see their point.



i think that pretty much sums it up :thumbsup




Matlin -- personally, i have many MD recordings that i love, and still collect/trade them...but from the beginning, TTD's goal was to constantly push the level of standards higher and higher, continuing to stay at the forefront as new technologies arise...and we'll continue to do that, knowing that there are PLENTY of similar sites who aren't as "strict", where MD recordings can be seeded

as someone who was against the rule at first but changed my mind as discussions progressed, i came to understand that this wasn't an idea based outta audio snobbery or trust fund taper elitism, but simply to raise the bar on quality as newer technologies arose

RetroDude83
2010-01-05, 06:22 AM
Matlin, you a free to post anything you recorded before 1/1/2008 here.

GRC
2010-01-06, 05:14 AM
share it elsewhere...problem solved.

There's plenty of other sites out there, and no real imperative that you share it here.

uninvited94
2010-01-06, 06:57 AM
When I look at the TTD-banner above, this may be the only of the things shown that is not allowed anymore. We should offer an alternate version of the banner with the MD-recorders and -tapes crossed out. I never totally was against MD-masters as, Ive said it often enough, there were things that probably never will be archieved anymore, and done with MD.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55041

Not to parcitipate on a discussion and in no way forcing people to disrespect the rules, just a thought. The fact that there are WAV-recorders available for a reasonable price is important. Hopefully the tapers that did some wonders like that TOOL-capture have upgraded their gear as well.

RetroDude83
2010-01-06, 09:17 AM
I see no point in this thread, everything's said, no MD recordings that were made after 1/1/2008. I personally do not have anything against MD recordings as long as they sound good to me, though I must admit, I can tell the difference between a MD source and a DAT or WAV recording, and DAT/WAV sources certainly sound "fuller" too me (no matter how great a MD source is) if that makes any sense, hence I can understand the motives behind this policy.

The person who started this thread has seeded two shows in two years, of which only one was an MD source complying with the rules here, so I dont get why being upset about the policy? it's been here for two years now and any recordings made with a MD before 2008 is still cool here. so chill down, seed the (pre 2008) stuff here if you want, if not, there's plenty of other places that will allow MD recordings. simple as that.

AAR.oner
2010-01-06, 12:10 PM
he tried seeding a new show yesterday that was pulled for being ATRAC MD...thats why this thread/issue has popped up





JUST TO CLARIFY:

we do allow Hi-MD recordings captured in wav mode, just not those recorded in the lossy ATRAC modes...just a fwiw in case someone gets confused

paddington
2010-01-06, 12:23 PM
MD ATRAC is obsolete.

That is the reason.

Sony dropped ATRAC, seeing no reason to continue making and supporting lossy audio recorders. ATRAC was a necessary evil for many years to get digital recordings due to technology limitations (mostly financial, really).

As was just said, we have no rule banning MD recorders, only MD Recordings made using ATRAC compression. One of the later MD models that records linear audio to WAV can still be used to record shows to seed at TTD.

Lossy, data-compressed audio is not allowed here.
The exception is ALL ATRAC recordings made before 1/1/2008 (2 years ago).

jcrab66
2010-01-06, 10:14 PM
Matlin, i commend you for your use of the word perturbed, an old classic that doesnt see much play these days:clap:

Homebrew101
2010-01-07, 10:29 AM
^^ :pw:

nWo4Life
2010-01-07, 10:39 AM
stay on topic

trustthex
2010-02-17, 11:14 PM
When I look at the TTD-banner above, this may be the only of the things shown that is not allowed anymore. We should offer an alternate version of the banner with the MD-recorders and -tapes crossed out. I never totally was against MD-masters as, Ive said it often enough, there were things that probably never will be archieved anymore, and done with MD.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55041

Not to parcitipate on a discussion and in no way forcing people to disrespect the rules, just a thought. The fact that there are WAV-recorders available for a reasonable price is important. Hopefully the tapers that did some wonders like that TOOL-capture have upgraded their gear as well.

Technically that TooL thread should be pulled, while we are all getting our dander up...

SHN > CDR > EAC > Wav

Extra Generation when a SHN fileset circulates.

:nono:






:lol4:

uninvited94
2010-02-17, 11:52 PM
Yep, how the fuck ever I did not see that when upping it. Its pulled now.

paddington
2010-02-18, 12:21 AM
I am perturbed by the TTD's apparent policy of removing torrents that were recorded on MD. If the master was recorded in the SP mode of a MD recorder, why is that not good enough?


'cause it isn't


SP = lossy compression
we don't allow lossy compression here
exceptions are made for MD recordings in ATRAC made before Jan 1st 2008.
Since that time, Sony has dropped ATRAC and so should you, for new recordings.

You are free to upload lossy audio anywhere that will allow it.