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Greengoat
2004-11-20, 11:45 AM
Ok, I've always used md5summer, but I want to start using flac frontend and shntool.

I finally got shntool to spit out an md5 text file. I couldn't get the batch file in the massive help pages to work, the only thing I could get to work is to have the shntool files copied to the show directory then run a command prompt and use this "shntool md5 *.shn>>shntool.md5.txt" and of course change it to flac for flac files. Worked just fine. So in order for someone down the road, say on a vine, to check the files is to run shntool like this "shntool md5 *.shn" and compare the output to my file?

On the subject of making a flac fingerprint using FLAC Frontend, I read through everything, but when I ran the app, my screen doesn't have the "Fingerprint" button as pictured in the info given here - http://www.audiophilia.net/ffp.htm

So what I'm wondering, am I missing something or do I need to try and find an older version of flac frontend?

Here is exactly what mine looks like. It's the latest version out, the one linked to on the help page.

http://members.home.nl/w.speek/speek_files/flac_frontend.png

Thanks for all the great info, I know I love music, but I also know I still have plenty to learn about the trading of it....this after getting over 400 shows from STG. :hmm:

dorrcoq
2004-11-20, 02:40 PM
hmmmmmm, that version doesn't have an "align on sector boundaries" option, either

Discoking
2004-11-20, 03:06 PM
On the subject of making a flac fingerprint using FLAC Frontend, I read through everything, but when I ran the app, my screen doesn't have the "Fingerprint" button as pictured in the info given here - http://www.audiophilia.net/ffp.htmI think you need to load flac files into flac frontend in order to create the fingerprint file. Not wav files.

On the other hand, if there's no fingerprint button... :hmm:

Maybe the fingerprint button will appear as soon as one or more flac files are added?

jcrab66
2004-11-20, 03:14 PM
I think you need to load flac files into flac frontend in order to create the fingerprint file. Not wav files.

On the other hand, if there's no fingerprint button... :hmm:

Maybe the fingerprint button will appear as soon as one or more flac files are added?


thats kind of what i'm thinking....now i wanna leave work and go home just to check it out :D

Discoking
2004-11-20, 03:16 PM
I still have an older version of Flac Frontend and now I don't dare to check it out. What if it isn't working?

I'm a pussy. :(

diggrd
2004-11-20, 05:22 PM
I am just recovering from a 3 HD failure and went to d/l flac front end from
www.mikewren.com/flac/ and this is what I got, GG what OS are you using, I have an easy way to use shntool without the batch files if it's windows.

DDSTree
2004-11-20, 05:53 PM
digg, what's the easy way?

dorrcoq
2004-11-20, 07:03 PM
yeah, i want to hear the easy way too - all that command line shit is too technical for me

RainDawg
2004-11-20, 09:23 PM
I have an easy way to use shntool without the batch files if it's windows.
I am very interested in hearing about this as well, and would be happy to writeup some guides for the FAQ on whatever method you're referring to. I've actually been working on coding a frontend for shntool because I searched far and wide and was unable to find any GUI for it. Please fill us in!

RainDawg
2004-11-20, 09:33 PM
Greengoat...you're right. Thanks for posting this and catching my mistake. The tutorial I wrote for that page indicated a download of the wrong FLAC Frontend. I posted a link to speek's Frontend, but in reality you should be using the one from the official FLAC page, at:

http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html

Click on Windows Installer version, and it will put on the version that I used to write those tutorails. I'm really sorry for the mixup....so many links I had to put into that FAQ and all, I just got a few of them crossed.

Try it with that download, and if you still have problems, post back or PM me, and I'll be glad to help.

(embarassed)

Greengoat
2004-11-20, 10:33 PM
Greengoat...you're right. Thanks for posting this and catching my mistake. The tutorial I wrote for that page indicated a download of the wrong FLAC Frontend. I posted a link to speek's Frontend, but in reality you should be using the one from the official FLAC page, at:

http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html

Click on Windows Installer version, and it will put on the version that I used to write those tutorails. I'm really sorry for the mixup....so many links I had to put into that FAQ and all, I just got a few of them crossed.

Try it with that download, and if you still have problems, post back or PM me, and I'll be glad to help.

(embarassed)

So this is the place to go when you want answers. :thumbsup :clap:

Phew, I'm comfortable with computers, but this one had me stumped. I'll try the one from the official page sometime later tonight.

To answer a few questions from the above posts,
- I did load flac files into it
- I'm running XP HE

And why do I need to run flac frontend, if I have shntools with the flac codec? They both check the same thing. What we need is, as you said a shn frontend or at least one for shntools.

Greengoat
2004-11-20, 10:41 PM
Greengoat...you're right. Thanks for posting this and catching my mistake. The tutorial I wrote for that page indicated a download of the wrong FLAC Frontend. I posted a link to speek's Frontend, but in reality you should be using the one from the official FLAC page, at:

http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html

Click on Windows Installer version, and it will put on the version that I used to write those tutorails. I'm really sorry for the mixup....so many links I had to put into that FAQ and all, I just got a few of them crossed.

Try it with that download, and if you still have problems, post back or PM me, and I'll be glad to help.

(embarassed)


I went to go dl the "Flac frontend" located in the

GUI encoding/decoding front-ends:

* Windows

section, but that is a link to the one I already have.

RainDawg
2004-11-20, 10:45 PM
Well, FLAC frontend is totally unnecessary, but it saves people from having to learn all that ugly command line stuff. Shntool can't do FLAC fingerprint directly, it can only do shntool md5, which is the came checksum but carried out in drastically different ways. In order to work with ffp, you need the metaflac.exe that comes packaged with the FLAC frontend there, but is not accessible through shntool (AFAIK).

So...FLAC Frontend is useful because it provides a graphical interface with flac.exe and metaflac.exe, the latter being the one that handles ffps and is not compatible with shntool. Confusing, I know.

Now....as for an shntool frontend...I am currently working on putting together a frontend for this, that will actually package shntool, metaflac, md5check (another great program) and each of the three codecs we use on this site into a nice, single installer package. I'm just starting on this project right now, so it's gonna be a while. But all this confusion over "why do i need all these different things" just convinced me that, to make it easy to use, it's time someone goes ahead and puts a package together.

RainDawg
2004-11-20, 10:49 PM
Really?

I just uninstalled, downloaded from this link, and reinstalled and it's the right version, identical to the screencaps in that tutorial I posted:

http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html

Scroll down and click on "FLAC 1.1.1 for Windows with installer". That's the right one...I'm positive. Uninstall your previous version before installing this one, just to be sure you're on the right page...

Greengoat
2004-11-20, 10:51 PM
I am just recovering from a 3 HD failure and went to d/l flac front end from
www.mikewren.com/flac/ and this is what I got, GG what OS are you using, I have an easy way to use shntool without the batch files if it's windows.

Now that one works, well they both work, but this one has the fingerprint button.


And back to dawg, so I can make md5 files for flac using shntool, but that's not the same as a ffp? I thought they both check only the audio, and nothing else, so why wouldn't they both work. Not meaning to be a pest, I just what to learn how to do this right.

And where is diggrd with his "easy way to use shntool without the batch files if it's windows." :D

Greengoat
2004-11-20, 11:00 PM
Ah, I was down a little too far. I was in the extras section.

# FLACdrop, an Oggdrop-like frontend for Windows, or the even more versatile oggdropXPd.
# FLAC frontend, a Windows GUI, or the even more versatile Multi frontend.
# Frontah, a new frontend to many codecs, including FLAC. Still in beta but has good reviews.
# MAREO is a "virtual" encoder that can be used with ExactAudioCopy to encode to multiple formats (including FLAC) at once while ripping.

RainDawg
2004-11-20, 11:01 PM
And back to dawg, so I can make md5 files for flac using shntool, but that's not the same as a ffp? I thought they both check only the audio, and nothing else, so why wouldn't they both work. Not meaning to be a pest, I just what to learn how to do this right.

You're not a pest...it's a valid question. The FLAC fingerprint is indeed an md5 checksum of the original uncompressed audio data, and will yield the same result as the shntool md5 in terms of the number. The major difference is that the FLAC fingerprint is encoded directly into the header of the file when it is encoded, and the "fingerprint" function metaflac.exe just extracts this text from the file and collates it into a text file. The shntool md5 will go ahead and compute it, taking quite a bit more time. The text of the shntool md5 is also formatted slightly differently....but if the checksum result isn't identical, you have corrupted FLAC files that won't extract or play without error.

With FLAC files, the "right" way to do it doesn't require shntool at all. Just take the fingerprint and record that into a xxxx.ffp.txt file for future reference. You can also use Frontend's "test" function to actually go ahead and check that checksum value against the contents of the tile to confirm that your files are not corrupted.

I hope this makes a bit more sense.....

Greengoat
2004-11-20, 11:08 PM
Yes, it does. Especially the part about saving some time by using flac frontend vs. shntool for checking it. :thumbsup

malick
2004-11-21, 12:42 AM
Hey Greengoat, while reading your post I saw...



...the only thing I could get to work is to have the shntool files copied to the show directory then run a command prompt and use this "shntool md5 *.shn>>shntool.md5.txt" and of course change it to flac for flac files. Worked just fine.



you can save yourself a step, assuming you're on XP, by dropping a copy of SHNTOOLS into C:\WINDOWS\system32 and whenever you open a command prompt, you can just type in "shntool" and the program will run. Of course you'll still have to navigate over to the appropriate folder. I think in older Windows OS's you put SHNTOOL in the Windows\Command folder if you're still running one of those versions.

diggrd
2004-11-21, 01:54 AM
Hey Greengoat, while reading your post I saw...



you can save yourself a step, assuming you're on XP, by dropping a copy of SHNTOOLS into C:\WINDOWS\system32 and whenever you open a command prompt, you can just type in "shntool" and the program will run. Of course you'll still have to navigate over to the appropriate folder. I think in older Windows OS's you put SHNTOOL in the Windows\Command folder if you're still running one of those versions. Yes that's one part of my "easy" method but in no way does my easy way remove the command line (I like DOS) the other part is to create a command prompt here (http://www.windowsnetworking.com/kbase/WindowsTips/Windows2000/UserTips/Miscellaneous/AddCommandPrompttofoldercontextmenus.html)right click option allowing me to right click the folder where the files are and proceed with the arcane commands of shntool

malick
2004-11-21, 02:57 AM
diggra, thanks, hadn't known that trick before. one less step for me now.

Greengoat
2004-11-21, 03:00 AM
Great, I'll be sure to give those a try. Thanks.

Greengoat
2004-11-21, 12:25 PM
I am very interested in hearing about this as well, and would be happy to writeup some guides for the FAQ on whatever method you're referring to. I've actually been working on coding a frontend for shntool because I searched far and wide and was unable to find any GUI for it. Please fill us in!

I searched wider.. :D ...and found this GUI for shntools - http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=106210&package_id=114412&release_id=230527

The only problem is whenever I try to drag and drop a shn file over to the app I get a runtime error, then the app closes.

"Runtime error '5';

Invalid procedure call or argument"

I can't quite make out what shntools is doing in the background, but it looks like it's saying something like, illegal helper program.

RainDawg
2004-11-21, 12:32 PM
Not to be really picky Goat, but the name of the program is shntool, no s. That might confuse some people.

Anyway, thanks for the link. It looks interesting, but I tried this and couldn't get it to do anything either. Looks like this is something someone was playing with, and this version really shouldn't have been released ;).

It doesn't work at all for anything other than shn, and when I do use an shn I get the same bad result you did.

Greengoat
2004-11-21, 12:36 PM
Found this, haven't tried it yet. http://research.umbc.edu/~hamilton/cgreenshntool.html

Greengoat
2004-11-21, 12:38 PM
Might have been for an old release of shntool.


Notice the lack of the "s". ;)

But the source code is there, and could be a start for writing a new code. Since this is open source anyone is free to use it right?

RainDawg
2004-11-21, 12:49 PM
Well, the shntool source is indeed open a free to use, but under the GPL agreement. This means that if you take parts of it, you must refer anyone who uses the software to a link where they can access the original file and source code.

So technically, someone could take the individual functions and re-crete them in another standalone pacakge. It's just that no one has done this yet.

dacrawdaddy
2004-11-28, 01:43 PM
Also, here's part of an old post from STG cached @<hidden> Google:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:4GQWSca5Eq8J:www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/printthread.php%3Ft%3D81053+%22generate+md5+signatures%22+%2B+%22menu%22&hl=en

"If you have mkwAct installed, then right click on the folder you want to make the MD5 for and you'll see the option "Generate MD5 signatures". The MD5 will generate checksums for everything in the folder..."

In other words, mkwACT has a windows context menu option installed which allows you to right-click a folder, then select the option to generate an md5 checksum file inside of that folder. I've been using this for at least a year now, and I think it did come with the mkwACT package I have (0.97 beta1), although I'm not sure if that's where I got it.

katnapz
2004-11-28, 02:01 PM
"If you have mkwAct installed, then right click on the folder you want to make the MD5 for and you'll see the option "Generate MD5 signatures". The MD5 will generate checksums for everything in the folder..."



But the problem with that (if I read the FAQ correctly) is that mkwAct generates a "wholefile" md5, which isn't as good (or accepted) here on TTD.
See:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/faq.php?faq=md5#faq_ffp
"Note: Wholefile md5 checksums are the type generated by programs such as mdsum, mkwact, and others. Please read on to understand why these are forbidden as the primary form of file verificaton at The Traders' Den."

You might want to start getting away from mkwAct in any case as it has known issues in XP. I can't use it on mine with much reliability...If I need to do anything with mkwAct I have a 98SE system I move things to.

...the topic of how much longer will SHN be around could be a completely different thread...

RainDawg
2004-11-28, 04:44 PM
Right...the mkw generated wholefile md5s are pretty useless. I like that option for DVD seeds, but for lossless audio trading it's just not practical to use that.

aaadbell
2004-11-29, 01:59 PM
You can create a Flac fingerprint file named ffp.txt at the command line with the following command (assuming metaflac.exe is in your path).

FOR %f IN (*.flac) DO metaflac --show-md5sum --with-filename "%f" >> ffp.txt

If you put this in a batch file, the %f must become %%f in both occurrences.

If you leave out the --with-filename "%f", you get the fingerprints without the filenames.

I got this from the hydrogenaudio thread http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10773

Greengoat
2004-11-29, 02:15 PM
Aargh! (sorry kid is watching SpongeBob) More options. Thanks aaadbell.

aaadbell
2004-11-29, 02:17 PM
If you leave out the --with-filename "%f", you get the fingerprints without the filenames.


That should be leave out --with-filename. You need the "%f".

One way to compare a file with shntool output and a file with flac fingerprint output is to write a batch file that strips away everything but the fingerprint and then use the basic file comparison command to compare the two stripped files.

It's not hard to write a batch file that strips the filenames and other stuff out, if you assume you know what the output looks like, that is, flac fingerprints always have the form filename:checksum and shntool fingerprints always have the form checksum [shntool] filename.

It would be more elegant, though, to have a program that recognizes an md5 checksum and strips everything else on the line. And of course it would be nice to have all this in a GUI wrapper where you just indicate the two fingerprint files and say "compare them".

Five
2004-11-29, 04:51 PM
You might want to start getting away from mkwAct in any case as it has known issues in XP. I can't use it on mine with much reliability...If I need to do anything with mkwAct I have a 98SE system I move things to.
MKWack won't install on my Win2kPro os either. As a result I've never even tried the prog.

RainDawg
2004-11-29, 05:05 PM
MKWack won't install on my Win2kPro os either. As a result I've never even tried the prog.
Don't bother.....

jcrab66
2004-11-29, 05:17 PM
MKWack won't install on my Win2kPro os either. As a result I've never even tried the prog.


no probs on my xp pro machine

fatoldpig
2004-11-29, 05:18 PM
MKWack won't install on my Win2kPro os either. As a result I've never even tried the prog.I have win2kpro and mkwack works fine.

Five
2004-11-29, 06:28 PM
I have win2kpro and mkwack works fine.
:hmm:

RainDawg
2004-11-29, 06:29 PM
mkwack
Hmm..typo or Fruedian slip? ;)

fatoldpig
2004-11-30, 10:46 AM
Hmm..typo or Fruedian slip? ;)or Floydian slip ;)

Five
2004-11-30, 11:36 AM
Too much Mad magazine in my youth :D

Greengoat
2004-11-30, 12:37 PM
Hey Five, I just noticed you have a link to Monkey's Audio in your sig. Is there a way for Mac users to work with .ape files now? It's been awhile since I used it, I was using it before the days of STG and everyone told me to use .shn or .flac.

RainDawg
2004-11-30, 12:39 PM
Hey Five, I just noticed you have a link to Monkey's Audio in your sig. Is there a way for Mac users to work with .ape files now? It's been awhile since I used it, I was using it before the days of STG and everyone told me to use .shn or .flac.
xACT will do it. Lynne has boatlaods of information on this program, but there's also a link the FAQ freeware section. I'm sure she'll be glad to help though....

Greengoat
2004-11-30, 01:36 PM
No, I run on a windows system. I was wondering if the software had possibly changed to an open platform since my last visit to the APE site. I'll be sure to check out the faq again and look for that info.

Thanks.

Five
2004-11-30, 01:41 PM
it's my understanding that APE doesn't seek on Mac and there is no support for Linux as of yet. I still use it at home because it has the #1 compression ratio.

RainDawg
2004-11-30, 01:44 PM
The official Monkey's Audio software does not have Mac support, but like I said, I know Lynne's told me that she's able to work with APE files using xACT and at least one other third party software whose name escapes me right now. It was with her blessing, and a guarantee that Mac users did have a free solution to using APE files, that I wrote them into the policy as a legal seed format. I couldn't tell you what programs or how to use them, but I trust her statements that APE is good to go on Mac.....

Greengoat
2004-11-30, 02:38 PM
I still use it at home because it has the #1 compression ratio.

I hear that! That was my number one argument at STG. But all I heard was not Mac friendly, and too slow, or the guy that wrote it doesn't have a good support forum, blah-blah.

Not too mention the cute little monkey in the app.

Five
2004-11-30, 02:47 PM
I hear that! That was my number one argument at STG. But all I heard was not Mac friendly, and too slow, or the guy that wrote it doesn't have a good support forum, blah-blah.

Not too mention the cute little monkey in the app.
Monkey is my fave but when I post in that format I get 50 posts saying "what is this?" "I can't make it work!" "waaa waaaa waaaa" so I just seed FLAC now.

RainDawg
2004-11-30, 03:26 PM
(resisting the temptation to diverge into ANOTHER FLAC/APE/SHUN thread)

I agree about the compression ratio, and I do archive a bunch of stuff in APE, but FLAC really does have them beat with the compression rate-independant decoding and the FLAC fingerprints.

crazee_canuck
2004-12-01, 07:47 PM
You can create a Flac fingerprint file named ffp.txt at the command line with the following command (assuming metaflac.exe is in your path).

FOR %f IN (*.flac) DO metaflac --show-md5sum --with-filename "%f" >> ffp.txt

If you put this in a batch file, the %f must become %%f in both occurrences.

If you leave out the --with-filename "%f", you get the fingerprints without the filenames.

I got this from the hydrogenaudio thread http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10773

..and in Linux:

for I in *.flac; do metaflac --show-md5sum --with-filename "$I" >> ffp.txt; done

jazzbo
2004-12-01, 08:11 PM
..and in Linux:

for I in *.flac; do metaflac --show-md5sum --with-filename "$I" >> ffp.txt; done


or


metaflac --show-md5sum *.flac > foo.ffp.txt


... works for me.

You don't need --with-filename if you list more than one file on the command line. Any *nix shell should glob and produce all of the filenames on one line with the command line above. You should never have to use for loops to simulate globbing, as you have to in DOS.

crazee_canuck
2004-12-02, 12:42 AM
ugh...been doing it the "hard way"..hehe...I didn't realize that'd work. (I found that when I encode to musepack (for *my own use*) that I needed the looping).

Good to see metaflac is smarter than that. ;)

Thanks for the heads up.