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U2Lynne
2008-10-16, 02:11 PM
Is it just my perception being off, or does it seem that less and less people are saying Thanks to the seeders?

I know I have always tried to say Thanks when I grab a torrent, and then if I especially like the show, or have other comments about it, I go back and post again in the thread. But, sometimes I will find there are already 30 leechers on a show and there isn't even one Thanks in the thread! What is with that? Do some users just feel that they don't need to say Thanks or don't realize that it's polite to say Thanks? Are they so used to a Thanks button (like on other sites) that they don't know how to post a simple comment of Thanks?

Why are users not saying Thanks?

LeifH12345
2008-10-16, 02:29 PM
I always appreciate thanks and I try to thank every seeder I download from.

Another thing is the grab and run, zero posting leeches. If they seeded for longer, their ratios wouldn't be so bad.

daddyray
2008-10-16, 02:58 PM
I noticed this as well.
if a thanks button wouldn't be too much trouble to add to the site perhaps more would indeed help some folks show some gratitude. Or we could have Freezer PM every single person every single time they don't give thanks. He seems to have a way with that message.

daddyray
2008-10-16, 02:59 PM
I like the avatar, BTW, Lynne

Thulani
2008-10-16, 03:04 PM
I try to say thanks, but sometimes i forget & i usually say thanks by seeding above 1 ratio.

U2Lynne
2008-10-16, 03:09 PM
I noticed this as well.
if a thanks button wouldn't be too much trouble to add to the site perhaps more would indeed help some folks show some gratitude. Or we could have Freezer PM every single person every single time they don't give thanks. He seems to have a way with that message.
We have considered that. But, some people feel that is an impersonal way to say Thanks and that they might as well have not said anything. But, maybe not. It is open for discussion and I am reading this thread to see what people think.




Do you think new users just don't think about it? As was already brought up, there are a lot of users who have downloaded stuff and never made a single post. Why is that? Are they afraid to say Thanks or do they just not think about it?

dcbullet
2008-10-16, 03:16 PM
We have considered that. But, some people feel that is an impersonal way to say Thanks and that they might as well have not said anything. But, maybe not. It is open for discussion and I am reading this thread to see what people think.

I am in the camp of thinking that a thanks button does nothing and is too impersonal.

I also don't think that necessarily every singe person needs to say thanks in every single torrent thread. A torrent with 100 completes - that's a lot of posts! I'm more interested in hearing what people think of the band, the setlist, the recording - personal interaction regarding the show. That said, if there are 10 leachers with no thanks, the next guy oughta at least say thanks!

daddyray
2008-10-16, 03:20 PM
i know I tend to go back to say thanks and make comments after I have "used" my dl.
I think the button is weak (As noted above) but sometimes I have nothing more to add. I wonder if some have an issue with posting comments at all. lurking type stuff.

dementrium
2008-10-16, 03:29 PM
Even better, ask for seeders & not saying back a word to the person who helped. Running out after completing is just the cherry on the cake.

Toadinohio
2008-10-16, 04:06 PM
I noticed when we added a thanks button at ZOMB it would get alot of use.
Before that we had a similar problem.
A thanks button is a bit impersonal but it's better than no thanks at all (IMO)
I don't think having one would prevent a user from making a comment and people who would usually say nothing may click it, so the seeder gets something.

Homebrew101
2008-10-16, 04:24 PM
I just want to say thanks!


I try to leave a thanks when I dl a show and am guilty of using a thanks button on some sites if I can't think of anything else to add. I would add something after listening to a dl but I usually don't listen to shows until a month or so after dl'ing them because of all the shows on my HD.

rspencer
2008-10-16, 04:32 PM
:thanks:

Don't really need a button. You even gave a smilie to make it easy.

uninvited94
2008-10-16, 04:34 PM
:thanks:

Don't really need a button. You even gave a smilie to make it easy.

That should get a more prominent place in the "generic smilies"-list, IMHO.

VRMan
2008-10-16, 04:55 PM
I noticed when we added a thanks button at ZOMB it would get alot of use.
Before that we had a similar problem.
A thanks button is a bit impersonal but it's better than no thanks at all (IMO)
I don't think having one would prevent a user from making a comment and people who would usually say nothing may click it, so the seeder gets something.


Agreed. A quick thanks via button is better than nothing at all. If you have actual COMMENTS on a thread/torrent then yes, that's when you need to post. Otherwise a button would do it all (IMO). :wave:

daddyray
2008-10-16, 04:56 PM
then there is the "thank you mask man" issue...maybe we need a Tonta the indian button.

freezer
2008-10-16, 05:41 PM
It is open for discussion and I am reading this thread to see what people think.

Good, I have a few thoughts on the subject as someone who was a part of the hobby for a long time and have seen too many changes.

I don't upload or download, but I made more master recordings than quite a lot of your "community" put together.

I'd been supplying UNCIRCULATED recordings to people at this site, and I watch as the recordings are taken to other sites.

Many times the source info and lineage is retained, but just as often it isn't, it's removed by some "good" member of the "community" who wants credit for something he did little more than move to another site.

At certain sites, the removal of proper source info and lineage is encouraged by the site staff.

THAT is not the case here at TTD, and I applaud the audiophile standards that are tried to be upheld at this site.




Do you think new users just don't think about it? As was already brought up, there are a lot of users who have downloaded stuff and never made a single post. Why is that? Are they afraid to say Thanks or do they just not think about it?

I think it's the modern sense of entitlement that prevades the "community" now that is the root of your problem, Lynne.

Why thank somebody for something you feel ENTITLED to own?

Sharing? That's become a bullshit term in today's version of the hobby.

It's not sharing when you're ENTITLED to a copy, and many newer collectors don't feel the need to thank anyone for something they believe is already theirs.




Certain b/t sites foster that sense of entitlement.

It's why more and more tapers from the past are NOT fully opening their collection vaults.

It's why certain older recordings will never see the light of day, or be passed around in any form except a very highly generated version with edits and tracks removed.

And that HAS become the standard rather than the exception.





My David Bowie 1978-04-11 Baton Rouge recording was booted years ago, oh well....

Well, that boot was torrented at this site earlier this year. That torrent was picked up by another bootlegger and bootlegged again. (Maybe you remember me telling someone who seeded the recording that it was an audience tape and I made it....His comment? WHO cares where it came from. Need to be pointed to where that exchange was made or which TTD member made that reply???)

Unfortunately, the Bowie Baton Rouge boot is VERY highly edited and the original source info was removed long ago. Oh well...

Consequently, there are "good" collectors passing that recording off as a 'soundboard' recording, because they can't hear the audience between the songs.... It was removed, along with Bowie's stage patter. It's a garbage copy in circulation. And even though a better copy could be in circulation, the boot is what will be passed around from this point on.

Garbage in.....garbage out.....

Also it gives me very little impetus to put the master of the Bowie show in circulation. Why bother, when even the collector who seeded the bootleg doesn't give a good hearty goddam about getting a better copy?



You know me to be vociferous, and that causes the trolls in your "community" to come out and want to bait arguements over UNCIRCULATING recordings rather than just politely asking. We're seeing that again today in the Lounge area, aren't we?



However, to address the use of a "Thanks" button or whether it's better to add a personalized thanks:

I'd prefer to see comments on the sound quality of the recording, or the performance by the artists, or the reaction of the audience, or the set list.

THAT'S where the real thanks lies......A response on how the show was appreciated AFTER a listen......

HOWEVER: That would mean taking a bit of effort to actually listen to the d/l'ed show and forming a comment and then typing it up.....and that's something that the new members of the "community" don't want to think about.....It decreases their sense of entitlement.



But, say, Lynne, ....imagine what the next few years will bring to the "community" if the trend YOU noticed continues...... :lol4:



You think it'll get any better? I doubt it.

You better institute that thank you button to go off automatically upon each completed download, IF you want to see it in use when the next new wave of teenagers hit TTD in force.


:rolleyes:

harpsichord
2008-10-16, 11:27 PM
I try to thank everyone for their uploads, but I usually wait until the download completes so I can check it out first. While I appreciate all the effort to share shows, I feel that the quality of the torrent dictates the thanks. Fortunately, I haven't had too many 'klunkers', and I've been able to sample most shows and abort those that just don't measure up.

There are, however, a lot of douche-bags that think they have a right to anything they can glom, and that thanks aren't worth their effort. In that respect, TTD is just like real-life.

chinajoe
2008-10-16, 11:36 PM
cant say i care one way or another if someone thanks me. page after page of thanks would get boring real quick. i agree that commenting on the quality of the recording is a good idea as it may help the taper do better in the future. sometimes, people add info about what happened at the show. things like people picking up urine soaked cards and putting it in their back pocket, or some superfat surfer falling flat on his ass.

a thanks button would be somewhat impersonal. but, if you have an option where you can edit it like a signature then it becomes more personal.

sleepless
2008-10-17, 01:33 AM
Well, I always say thanks as part of my d/l ritual...

But I feel stupid just saying "thanks" using the same wording every time.

I am so far behind on listening to shows that I have d/l I have no clue as to the quality, sound, etc. etc. so I just say thank you.

The sites that have the button are lame...I feel that taking the time to say thanks is sincere...pressing a button has no value.

So...As always, thank you!!

Toadinohio
2008-10-17, 03:34 AM
At certain sites, the removal of proper source info and lineage is encouraged by the site staff.


I have to say I have never heard of a site, torrent, mail trading, FTP or whatever that removal of proper source info and/or lineage is encouraged by users or staff.

Even with pirate sites and 'scene' releases.

Can you point me in the direction of such a place? (out of my own sick curiosity)
PM me if you don't want to call them out in public.

Zenith023
2008-10-17, 04:35 AM
I'd prefer to see comments on the sound quality of the recording, or the performance by the artists, or the reaction of the audience, or the set list.

THAT'S where the real thanks lies......A response on how the show was appreciated AFTER a listen......



I definitely agree with this. It's nice and polite for people to say thanks (I try to on everything I DL), but for something I'd recorded and uploaded, although a string of "thanks for sharing" comments are appreciated, some feedback on the quality/show etc would be more helpful and could help me as the taper to improve.

I agree the thanks button is a little impersonal, but it's better than nothing.

direwolf-pgh
2008-10-17, 09:25 AM
thanks

cmaz
2008-10-17, 09:40 AM
i've never said, "Thanks" in the thread for something i've downloaded, unless i had something more to add. i personally don't like to see a thread full of thanks. i'd like the thread following a seed to contain information worth reading. Anything, someone who was at the show, a comment about the artist, comments on the show/recording quality, whatever. But a wading through a thread full of thanks seems wasteful.

But then again, i haven't seeded anything. If i had, maybe i would be in the other court and getting all peeved about the sense of entitilement in the damned youth today!

And another point for adding the thanks...it harks back to the days of STG...where bumping the thread would keep it up at the top of the message list and keep the torrent well-fed.

So there is my contradictory point of view (do i ever take a stance on anything?)

Five
2008-10-17, 11:55 AM
1% of the members make 99% of the posts... so overall its about as much interaction as (to borrow a quote) going to a supermarket.

its part of our mission to increase fan interaction, I'm not certain a thanks button would achieve this....

this hobby doesn't have to be a lonely one, lets talk about the shows more, say 'wow, what a great version of xxx song, I think its the best from the tour...' etc

would be great to see some first-time posters add to this conversation, tell us why you haven't posted yet (and hopefully break the habit..)

U2Lynne
2008-10-17, 12:19 PM
would be great to see some first-time posters add to this conversation, tell us why you haven't posted yet (and hopefully break the habit..)
Yes, it would. However, I have a feeling they aren't even reading this thread.

pawel
2008-10-17, 12:27 PM
1% of the members make 99% of the posts.
Perhaps you have in mind these sitting 24h at the lounge :lol4:

I think it's not so bad, approx. up to 10% of people leeching a torrent drop a comment. Same is at Dime, worst at other sites.

As an uploader I like even simple 'thanks'. A little number comments doesn't encourage me to prepare another torrent ;) However, I very often seed for a few buddies I like.

RetroDude83
2008-10-17, 04:31 PM
Is it just my perception being off, or does it seem that less and less people are saying Thanks to the seeders?

I know I have always tried to say Thanks when I grab a torrent, and then if I especially like the show, or have other comments about it, I go back and post again in the thread. But, sometimes I will find there are already 30 leechers on a show and there isn't even one Thanks in the thread! What is with that? Do some users just feel that they don't need to say Thanks or don't realize that it's polite to say Thanks? Are they so used to a Thanks button (like on other sites) that they don't know how to post a simple comment of Thanks?

Why are users not saying Thanks?

I was having the same feeling too, over the past 12 months less and less people would comment on the shows I seeded, they'd only post a comment to complain if I disappeared.

yesterday, I have just posted about that issue in the taper's forum, where the thread's question was 'do you feel obligated to release your tapes', and really, not that I'm a taper for a long time, but I'm absolutely reluctant to seed anything of the stuff I taped.

Guess people have been feeded with too much and now take it for granted to be supplied with the latest recordings or something. Wonder how many of them have actually taped something themselves or ever traded big for discs/tapes back in the day...

as for the Thank You buttons on several other sites, they are absolutely useless in my opinion. but also here, they are not being pressed by many any longer either.

Just wondering whether this trend will change again or get even worse in the near future. I'm not the type of guy who downloads lots as I really have more live music to listen to than time, but if I do I always give a wink to the seeders :wave:

2cents

rspencer
2008-10-17, 06:21 PM
1% of the members make 99% of the posts.
Perhaps you have in mind these sitting 24h at the lounge :lol4:


I was thinking the same thing. :lol4:

Hundreds of threads, thousands of posts.

And what, maybe 15 of us in there, along with another couple dozen aliases. :lol4:

Most of us in the Lounge post thanks, though. :thumbsup

JackDog
2008-10-17, 08:06 PM
However, to address the use of a "Thanks" button or whether it's better to add a personalized thanks:

I'd prefer to see comments on the sound quality of the recording, or the performance by the artists, or the reaction of the audience, or the set list.

THAT'S where the real thanks lies......A response on how the show was appreciated AFTER a listen......

HOWEVER: That would mean taking a bit of effort to actually listen to the d/l'ed show and forming a comment and then typing it up.....and that's something that the new members of the "community" don't want to think about.....It decreases their sense of entitlement.

That's exactly how I feel. It's nice for someone to say thanks, but it's actually helpful for me if they say something about the recording after listening to it. I also agree that there's a sense of entitlement out there that's only getting worse. Now that more people know how to download bittorrents it seems like they expect to get a copy of the show before it's even over. I haven't even been taping for a year yet, but I've already become jaded.

Lou
2008-10-17, 08:50 PM
I also don't think that necessarily every singe person needs to say thanks in every single torrent thread. A torrent with 100 completes - that's a lot of posts!

This is why I think the "thanks" button would be good. I don't see the button as any less personal than spending 5 seconds typing out six characters and nothing else and moving on, and I think you'd get more people expressing thanks if they could do it with the click of a button, as opposed to typing it out.

I also would like to see more substantive discussion of shows as you pointed out, and I think that's a bigger problem than people not saying thanks. The last show I posted (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63621) got the following kinds of posts:

1) thanks
2) recording quality
3) How do you decode these files

There was not ONE post discussing anything specific about the concert itself (a couple people said it was a great concert, that's it). Nothing about what would make the performances of the songs, or banter between songs, unique (or not) compared to other shows. Nothing about the funny (I thought) comments by audience members around the taper. Nobody who attended this show chimed in with a review of it. I can understand you won't usually get that with an older show, but this was a 2008 show. All of this is part of the fun, in my opinion.

E_rock
2008-10-18, 12:06 AM
The "Thank You" button is the best way to go. It gives the seeder a sense of satisfaction, if you will, and makes a moderators job a lot easier. There is nothing worse than ten pages of "thanks" before a post about the torrent itself. Sometimes the .torrent doesn't work, sometimes lossy comes into question, but, people keep on "thanking" and "thanking" and "thanking".

I mean.....really.


But...then, some people just don't see that button and just keep on "thanking" anyway.

chinajoe
2008-10-18, 12:08 AM
instead of listing each individual thanks, perhaps there can be a thank o meter.

Jesus Christ
2008-10-19, 04:42 AM
i was surprised to see the "please give the seeders some love" message on the sites' home page when it appeared because there are a number of original members that have expressed their dislike for people saying "thanks".

personally i like it when people say thanks; i was brought up that way myself.

i like reading the "thank you's" in a thread because there's usually nothing else to read. what i'd really like in the thread is discussion about the torrent. i can see the logic in not saying thanks as soon as you click on the torrent... that kinda translates as: "thanks for putting this up here, even though i don't know if its crap or not"... surely, the significant thanks would come when the downloader had actually seen/heard the torrent and loved it.

comments and discussion regarding the downloaded, seen/heard torrent would be a richer experience than simply "thanks", of course, but "thanks" is better than nothing... but then again, if a torrent gets 1000 downloads and only maybe 30 thanks, that can be a little deflating.

i hate the "thank you" button over at Tape City... it reduces "thanks" to an emotionless act that is void of all meaning. i always imagine that people just see and click it for the sake of it. i'm glad that TTD does not entertain such a superficial item.

in fact, "thank you buttons" remind me of something my Grandmother used to say to me when i was a very small kid. she would say, "you're not sorry or you wouldn't do it".... meaning, of course, "don't say sorry because you've been taught that saying "sorry" is good manners and therefore an autonomous response that bypasses reasoning, you should say "sorry" because you mean it (because you understand what it means in the direct context of your actions, conscious or otherwise). similarly, saying "thanks" because it's good manners means less than saying "thanks" because the torrent blew your mind.

i love this place.

i'd rather read "thanks" than nothing at all.