people who sell shows....

[The Sixth Rat Packer]

You know I'm sort of conflicted on this. On the one hand, I don't think people should be selling shows. Point blank. I think that live shows should be shared by people to get them out to the fans and all that.

But what do you do when you stumble across someone who's selling some shows (if trades aren't able to be done, and they don't do B+P) who has shows that A. you've never seen before, and didn't even know were out there and B. you can't find anywhere else.

Do you give in and cop the shows figuring that as long as you can get them and then spread them through the community that it'll be okay?

Let me explain the situation.

Years back when I FIRST got into tapetrading, I found this guy's webpage through tapetrader.com. He's based in Japan. So he has a MASSIVE list of shows. I mean, excuse the expression, an absolute fuckload of shows. And I'm talking about R&B, funk, soul shows. Now as most of you are aware of, there doesn't seem to be a huge contingent of sharers that have soul/R&B/Hip Hop/Funk type shows.

I mean there are some out there, but not even remotely close to the jam bands or the rock stuff or whatever.

So I went through his list and he had a handful of shows that I was just drooling over.

So I contacted him and was like, "look, I just got into this whole thing and I don't have a whole LOT of shows, but take a look at what I have and let's see if we can work something out. At worst, I can send you some blank dvds and postage."

He responded and said that he didn't do B+P and he didn't see anything I had that he wanted, and that he would charge me 5 bucks per CDR or 10 bucks per DVDR.

My initial reaction was (although I didn't respond to him in this way) "yeah, fuck YOU"

I responded that I appreciated him responding to me, but I wasn't really feeling the paying for boots thing.

And for some reason I ended up on his mailing list. lol

So flash forward to about a month ago and I got an email in an old email account I used from him that was a mass emailing kinda thing to all the people I suppose he deals with, saying the page was updated.

So I just went and looked through and there were still the shows I wanted and there were a couple more.

Now by this time I've been trading awhile and I've gotten some of the shows but there's still shows on there that I've never seen before didn't even know there were copies out there.

And so I hit him up and was like "check my list, blah blah blah" left off the B+P thing.

So he came back and said he had the stuff of interest on mine that he would have liked, and quoted me the prices.

This time I sat there and thought about it. I had some paypal dough laying around, and so I swallowed my pride and sent him like..38 bucks for the four dvds I wanted. He wanted 40 and I was like "dude, I got like 38.23..." lol

And that wasn't a lie.

So he was like, that's cool, go ahead.

So I paid him weekend and he shipped them this past monday. Got them today.

They're FANTASTIC.

One of the shows has a "do not sell this show" thing on it which kinda made me laugh. Authored by D.K.M. (says don't walk on the grass) lol

But I plan to upload the shows to here.

So my question is this, and I apologize for how long this is going:

Do you make excuses and pay for something if it's not available elsewhere, so you can then spread it around to others who might want it?

I mean, the dude was super polite, he's never been rude, never been ...anything but the perfect person to deal with, aside from him selling boots.

I saw a post while trying to find his page onetime from him on this forum, but it was way back in 2005 or something.

Just wondering....

[roomful]

This time I sat there and thought about it. I had some paypal dough laying around, and so I swallowed my pride and sent him like..38 bucks for the four dvds I wanted. He wanted 40 and I was like "dude, I got like 38.23..." lol

And that wasn't a lie.

So he was like, that's cool, go ahead.

So I paid him weekend and he shipped them this past monday. Got them today.

They're FANTASTIC.

One of the shows has a "do not sell this show" thing on it which kinda made me laugh.

This makes me laugh too, more than you know.

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

Those who support such messages claim that they prevent sales. But here is exhibit A that shows they do not! They are kind of annoying though for the free traders to have to look at if they are on the actual show footage, and not just on a menu.


My opinion on buying shows is that it is never 100 % kosher, but at least you are liberating the shows to thousands of free traders who will now get them for free. Here's an idea for liberating more shows at lower cost: Sign up at an R&B/soul/hip hop message board/community (or make a thread here at TTD if there is interest) and then get several people (like 50 ppl each chip in $1.00 to a paypal account) to split the cost of buying them. Then you torrent the discs so everyone can get them for free. Before you do that, though, you might want to check to see if these shows are already circulating in the free trade community, and see if you can trade for them or get someone to seed a torrent.

[The Sixth Rat Packer]

Yeah the "do not sell" was on the menu, not the footage (that I know of).

I've yet to run into a show that has that on the actual show footage.

[retired]

Those who support such messages claim that they prevent sales. But here is exhibit A that shows they do not!
Wrong as usual

My opinion on
No one really cares about the opinion of a leech who's never taped, transferred, or authored a show.

[The Sixth Rat Packer]

I just posted the first of the four shows in the Video Torrents section.

Jill Scott - Hidden Beach Launch Party (April 2000) - Proshot

[roomful]

You're right, the messages always prevent sales. All DVDs seeded here should have them. I look forward to trolling and personal attacks from hypocrites next.

Who says you represent anyone but yourself? Oh, you and your self important arrogance, that's who.

It's my opinion that all traders can have an opinion on selling and buying free trade shows.

Wrong, I've authored DVDs for myself, replacing the audio, etc. I've also taped for myself off TV and the radio, but none of the stuff is trade friendly.

[uninvited94]

Or Germany. You can´t avoid factory-pressed Silvers sourced from here or Dime on CD / DVD on German record conventions, often enough packed in cheap digipaks whose cheap glue that holds the jewel-case is ruining the CDs after some years. You ask people why they buy that shit and don´t get it on the internet for free, and all they say is: "I want to have a proper CD of it". Well, good luck with the glue, retards.

[U2Lynne]

I think the "do not sell" messages do help in some cases. In all cases? No, but some cases, yes.

As for the whole thing about buying shows and whether you should or not.... ideally, no one should have to buy them. However, obviously some people feel the need to make money off these shows, but luckily many people who buy them then liberate them so others do not have to buy them. If you look through the Audio section, anytime you see something with "Silver CD" in the lineage means it started out as a purchased show that was them liberated.

[roomful]

All this seller had to do was remove the menu to get rid of the message and he didn't even bother to do that. He sold it with the original menu intact. So why would he give a shit about embedded text? Someone can always create a new account on ebay, and as for someone running their own site, well they don't have to post feedback or emails. A lot of the people who do buy on ebay would probably leave positive feedback anyway cuz they were just happy to have the show.

[The Sixth Rat Packer]

Yeah I saw these shows and it was essentially two shows that I really wanted, and then I picked up a couple others that I had never seen online.

Figured at the very least, my loss of 38 bucks would be everyone else's gain by getting them out to everyone....

[uninvited94]

Yes, but is a rip from an obviously Dime- (or TTD-) sourced show that is sold as a Silver not a rip from a before-FLACed show and may be pulled after uploading on here? I guess I have some I bought back in 2003/04, long before I came in here.

[The Sixth Rat Packer]

oh and another thing. They came on these real slick looking blank DVDR's. I've never seen these before, they're solid white. No printing, no labels no little lettering in the middle, nothing.

It looks kinda cool, considering it's a simply all white disc.

I wrote him and asked him what media he used and he said he THOUGHT it was Taiyo Yuden ones.

I really liked the look of it though. lol

I'm such a nerd, I know.

[uninvited94]

You fell in love with a blank?

[The Sixth Rat Packer]

shhhhhhhhhhhh!

*looks around guiltily*

[classicrock1169]

Tayio Yuden Printable. Actually if you just go and buy disc that are able to be printed on they will be all white.

[The Sixth Rat Packer]

ah this is them. Think they're inkjet printable ones. I've never seen those before, so... *shrugs*

http://www.cddvdmedia.ca/dvdr-taiyo8w_2.jpg

[roomful]

You ask people why they buy that shit and don´t get it on the internet for free, and all they say is: "I want to have a proper CD of it". Well, good luck with the glue, retards.

Yep, they could just as easily say, "I want a pressed silver of this show, with or without the embedded text, because a pressed silver will last longer than a burned DVD-R. If I can someday get it without the embedded text, that would be even better, but I may never be able to get it without, so.... (wallet opens)"


As someone once said, they genned up the tapes, added cuts, glitches, traded incomplete versions, and that didn't stop the bootleggers!! :lmao: :lol

[uninvited94]

I have some Intenso that look exactly the same. No printing overall and stuff. The printable SONYs I have also had at least a hint what brand they were.

[uninvited94]

because a pressed silver will last longer than a burned DVD-R. l

As I said, they won´t in this case. The playable side of the Silver gets milky white after a few years, and that´s about it. Have some official DVDs that did the same. "Terminator", German DVD, DikiPak, fixing glue ruined the blanks.

[Five]

Yes, but is a rip from an obviously Dime- (or TTD-) sourced show that is sold as a Silver not a rip from a before-FLACed show and may be pulled after uploading on here? I guess I have some I bought back in 2003/04, long before I came in here.
for DVD the checksums should be identical to the download version in any case so it doesn't matter much.

for CD we usually allow a silver rip just so that people who have heard about this bootleg or that having a nice eq job or something can find out for themselves without having to buy it.

altho come to think of it the last time I heard of a nice eq job on a boot was when Genuine Masters was still putting stuff out... generally they're not loved by traders.

sure you authored some dvds and changed the audio, roomful, just like I play guitar better than Jimi Hendrix except I'm very shy and only do it when I'm alone in the house ;)

the more you talk your nonsense the more it makes ppl want to add those messages. its not like we only accept DVDs that have 'do not sell' somewhere in the video/menu, everybody can add it or not add it. so all you can do about it is author a DVD yourself and not add the 'do not sell' message. see, isn't that simple? :thumbsup :wave:

Rat Packer: I bit the bullet before... had a sort of interesting experience a couple years ago:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2497

that guy's site is now no longer online. I would guess as a direct result of the conversations that came out of that liberation. Given, that guy wasn't quite the same as the guy you're dealing with.

[The Sixth Rat Packer]

I actually was on the verge of paying for the Pearl Jam - Self Pollution (4CD) set that was a radio broadcast, and was pressed up by a Boston radio station for a promo, but lucked into finding someone who was trying to send it through soulseek, and ended up sending it to me for free (B+P).

I was happy as hell. It's a four hour radio broadcast they did from Eddie's basement. Awesome.

[roomful]

sure you authored some dvds and changed the audio, roomful, just like I play guitar better than Jimi Hendrix except I'm very shy and only do it when I'm alone in the house ;)

I don't care whether you believe me. It's a piece of cake to synch two digital audio sources together when the DAUD had already been synched to the VHS camera audio. It makes a nice matrix. I haven't messed around with time stretching yet, dunno that I ever will.

the more you talk your nonsense the more it makes ppl want to add those messages. its not like we only accept DVDs that have 'do not sell' somewhere in the video/menu, everybody can add it or not add it. so all you can do about it is author a DVD yourself and not add the 'do not sell' message. see, isn't that simple? :thumbsup :wave:


Really, the reason more people are using scrolls is because of little old me? :lmao: Gee I thought is was because of the bootleggers. :rolleyes:

All I can do about it is author a different show, cuz low gen VHS isn't easy to come by, and I can't tape a 20 year old show.

It isn't nonsense when people are selling stuff online with "do not buy or sell" messages, no matter what you might think. :thumbsup :lol4:

[The Sixth Rat Packer]

I understand the logic behind putting the "not for sale" logos on the menus. The way I see it is kinda like the MPAA's labeling the screener DVDS that they send to Video stores with the "do not copy, rent, sell this movie. If you have rented, bought this copy call...." figuring that if someone DOES get a boot that's been sold to them, then they'll be encouraged to turn in those sellers in the community, and maybe blacklist them from the community.

I just don't know if people really will go to that effort.

I mean, I'm not turning in the dude that I got these from. For two reasons, mostly. 1. That's just not me. I don't go ratting on people who are doing something just because I disagree with what they are doing. But as I said, that's just me. I don't blame those who DO turn in people who sell, but I won't do it. Whether that makes me an asshole or whatever.... *shrugs*

And 2. He's still got a lot that are not available anywhere else that I could pick up. Would be kinda dumb to cut off an asset, ya know? Besides, as has been mentioned in here and as I mentioned at the beginning, I view this as my chance to liberate these boots and spread them around to the community.

R&B/Hip Hop/Soul/Funk traders are sorely lacking in the community. I know anytime I've upped stuff, there's usually a good number of people who are excited to see my offerings, because they're not ones that are available all over.

I mean, you can spit and hit a DMB or Pearl Jam or Grateful Dead show.

You don't see much D'Angelo, Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, Kanye West, Mary J. Blige, etc.

[roomful]

The messages on the menus don't bother me one bit, as they don't affect the show at all. Screener vids are done that way (and on the movie itself I believe) because the show will be officially released in a few months, so I understand that. The official releases are then perfectly legal to resell.

A few DVDs have been seeded with scrolling text on the show footage, though. In my opinion (and it's just too bad that some people have to hear about an opinion from someone they consider a peon or serf) the shows should be released free from this type of thing, or if someone is so dismayed that the show might be sold, not released at all. It's partially destroying a piece of art (oh shit just like mp3) for the sake of theoretically preventing a negative aspect that sometimes goes along with the hobby. Now it's been shown that they don't work all the time even when used on an easily removed menu. btw, it was incorrect to say that the only thing I can do is author a DVD without a scrolling message on a show. I can also voice my opinion as a music fan and as a citizen with first amendment rights, motherfucker. :thumbsup

[KoolKat]

Five said sure you authored some dvds and changed the audio, roomful, just like I play guitar better than Jimi Hendrix except I'm very shy and only do it when I'm alone in the house

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Roomful saidThe official releases are then perfectly legal to resell.

Wrong.By law once you have bought media.You cannot re-sell.Same with VHS's etc.All should say somewhere.
Although everyone does at second hand sales when they don't want them anymore/have no need for them anymore ,on a legal step ,once bought you are breaking the law re-selling.

The logos are on film screeners because they are given free to people to review, for TV shows and newspapers etc.(promotion purposes).They are still the property of the movie company.
It doesn't have a copyright until it's a general release of fixed work ,be it cinema or shop sale.

So i'm with Five..the more you talk your nonsense

K_K

[roomful]

Wrong.By law once you have bought media.You cannot re-sell.Same with VHS's etc.All should say somewhere.

I don't know what the law is in the UK, but on US media (have an official DVD right in front of me) the notices are for unauthorized reproduction (copies) and sales of copies.

Although everyone does at second hand sales when they don't want them anymore/have no need for them anymore ,on a legal step ,once bought you are breaking the law re-selling.

Really, all those indie record shops (and ebay) that buy/sell/trade all kinds of used official vinyl, CDs, and DVDs are illegal, but the law is somehow never enforced? :hmm: :hmm:

The logos are on film screeners because they are given free to people to review, for TV shows and newspapers etc.(promotion purposes).They are still the property of the movie company.
It doesn't have a copyright until it's a general release of fixed work ,be it cinema or shop sale.

Uh huh, and they also put the logos there so that a pristine version doesn't get bootlegged before the official DVD comes out.



So i'm with Five..

K_K

So what?

[roomful]

sure you authored some dvds and changed the audio, roomful, just like I play guitar better than Jimi Hendrix except I'm very shy and only do it when I'm alone in the house ;)

why do these always turn into who can play better, how many shows have you taped, what have you authored, who have you taped. The issue of purchasing and selling bootlegs or embedded text for prevention of sales has fuck all to do with who's johnson is bigger. ;)

the more you talk your nonsense the more it makes ppl want to add those messages

Like this? :hmm::hmm:

DO NOT BUY OR SELL, FOR FREE TRADE ONLY.........AND FUCK YOU ROOMFUL I'LL PUT WHATEVER THE FUCK I WANT ON A DVD, I PUT THIS HERE JUST FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU SUCK EVEN THOUGH I KNOW THOUSANDS WILL DOWNLOAD IT

[roomful]

I had my eye on a Spider Man #1 but now I can't buy it. :( :cry: :lol4:

[paddington]

I can also voice my opinion as a music fan and as a citizen with first amendment rights, motherfucker. :thumbsup

Actually, the First Ammendment has absolutely no bearing on what you can or can't do here, at all.

You have no God-given rights at TTD, only Lynne-given rights. And those can run out...

[AAR.oner]

why do these always turn into who can play better, how many shows have you taped, what have you authored, who have you taped.

i don't know, why do you keep quoting and arguing against everyone who posts in this thread? i mean, i don't think the "do not sell" labels do much good either, but ya don't see me bringing it up yet again and making the same arguments over and over...let it go, its just some text on a show



back to the original topic at hand -- buying shows

ya know 6th Rat Packer, anyone who has collected live shows for more than a couple of years has bought a show...simple as that...maybe its less prevalent now, what with the internet and BT and all, but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do

personally, i don't like sellers, just disagree with it to much...but if someones got some old rare VHS of a band i love and they're selling it, i can't say i won't buy...hell, i bought a box of VHS & cassettes last year off a collector who was gettin outta the hobby...it basically came out to a few bucks a tape, i snatched em up, and don't feel guilty one bit! they'll get a proper transfer and be seeded now :thumbsup

[AAR.oner]

You have no God-given rights at TTD, only Lynne-given rights. And those can run out...

:lol4: :clap:

[roomful]

Actually, the First Ammendment has absolutely no bearing on what you can or can't do here, at all.

You have no God-given rights at TTD, only Lynne-given rights. And those can run out...

Yes it does. The rights might be a little more restrictive in certain forums, but without freedom of speech and freedom of expression, much of the content on this site (audio, video, posts) would disappear.

btw, what has Lynne taped, transferred or authored? Guess no one cares about her opinion either.

[paddington]

Actually, the First Ammendment has absolutely no bearing on what you can or can't do here, at all.

You have no God-given rights at TTD, only Lynne-given rights. And those can run out...

Yes it does. The rights might be a little more restrictive in certain forums, but without freedom of speech and freedom of expression, much of the content on this site (audio, video, posts) would disappear.

btw, what has Lynne taped, transferred or authored? Guess no one cares about her opinion either.

you assume this site is hosted in the US... and Lynne can tape your mouth shut, if you need her tape something.

[roomful]

i don't know, why do you keep quoting and arguing against everyone who posts in this thread? i mean, i don't think the "do not sell" labels do much good either, but ya don't see me bringing it up yet again and making the same arguments over and over...let it go, its just some text on a show

fair point AAR.oner, but I was having a laugh about it, and posting on topic, and someone has to come in and start up the same old rank and status shit. :down:

[roomful]

you assume this site is hosted in the US... and Lynne can tape your mouth shut, if you need her tape something.

The US is the only country with those freedoms? :hmm:

I don't need her to tape anything, it was sarcasm. I don't buy into the whole taper superiority elitist thing.

[paddington]

ok, so putting scrolling text across concert video is annoying, but we'll all just have to live with it and this site doesn't do anything about bad ratios and never will and everyone can have an opinion whether they tape shit or not.

that about cover it?

[paddington]

you assume this site is hosted in the US... and Lynne can tape your mouth shut, if you need her tape something.

The US is the only country with those freedoms? :hmm: only country with anything regarding free speech called "The First Amendment", which is what you cited...

anyway, the site is hosted here...

[uninvited94]

You have no God-given rights at TTD, only Lynne-given rights. And those can run out...

Really?? We have "The Joshua Tree" instead of the the Bible? I could live with that!!

[paddington]

You have no God-given rights at TTD, only Lynne-given rights. And those can run out...

Really?? We have "The Joshua Tree" instead of the the Bible? I could live with that!!

No, we have The FAQ. It's linked on every page... it's power is maximum, like Brody.

[roomful]

ok, so putting scrolling text across concert video is annoying, but we'll all just have to live with it and this site doesn't do anything about bad ratios and never will and everyone can have an opinion whether they tape shit or not.

that about cover it?

a discussion where everyone's opinion is equally valid and is conducted with mutual respect? Are you sure you're talking about this here site, TTD? :lmao:

[paddington]

ok, so putting scrolling text across concert video is annoying, but we'll all just have to live with it and this site doesn't do anything about bad ratios and never will and everyone can have an opinion whether they tape shit or not.

that about cover it?

a discussion where everyone's opinion is equally valid and is conducted with mutual respect? Are you sure you're talking about this here site, TTD? :lmao:

see? again you take meaning that isn't there. You made that up. Your opinion is guaranteed to not be equally valid to everyone here, nor is it likely to be treated with any respect. But you can post them.

I'm tired of your alias. Why not just post with your regular account?

[uninvited94]

a discussion where everyone's opinion is equally valid and is conducted with mutual respect? Are you sure you're talking about this here site, TTD? :lmao:

Ever had a discussion with a Dime-mod, especially one Dime-mod??

[roomful]

see? again you take meaning that isn't there. You made that up. Your opinion is guaranteed to not be equally valid to everyone here, nor is it likely to be treated with any respect. But you can post them.

I'm tired of your alias. Why not just post with your regular account?

I didn't say that everyone will agree with each other's opinion, just that that everyone has a right to make it. How can someone's opinion be invalid (unless you attack the source)? It's their opinion. There is no right or wrong. You're entitled to your own opinion, but you aren't entitled to your own facts. Some things aren't a matter of opinion. And I would expect that people should treat one another with some respect outside of the lounge, which is mostly unmoderated.

[roomful]

Ever had a discussion with a Dime-mod, especially one Dime-mod??

nope

[uninvited94]

Ever had a discussion with a Dime-mod, especially one Dime-mod??

nope

Not that laid-back as on here.

[paddington]

nope

Not that laid-back as on here.

consider the bs they have to deal with, though :lol:

[uninvited94]

consider the bs they have to deal with, though :lol:

Even considering that, it had more of an interrogation than a discussion.

[paddington]

yeah, we try to be benevolent dictators here... it works pretty well..

[U2Lynne]

Actually, the First Ammendment has absolutely no bearing on what you can or can't do here, at all.

You have no God-given rights at TTD, only Lynne-given rights. And those can run out...
Welcome to my signature again. :D

btw, what has Lynne taped, transferred or authored? Guess no one cares about her opinion either.
Unfortunately, nothing. However, you won't find me trying to tell the video authors not to put certain things on the screen, or telling the tapers they aren't allowed to whistle on their tape, or..... Sure, if they *ask* for my opinion, I'll give it, but I'm not gonna be starting a thread saying that they shouldn't be allowed to do certain things. I will simply download, or not download, certain shows and be Thankful that they are offered to me for free. Seriously, I am so thankful and grateful that they share them with me.

I'm actually surprised to see this brought up again. You took a hammering in that thread, I'd think you would just drop it by now. You won't change people's opinions about it.
see? again you take meaning that isn't there. You made that up. Your opinion is guaranteed to not be equally valid to everyone here, nor is it likely to be treated with any respect. But you can post them.

I'm tired of your alias. Why not just post with your regular account?
If I recall, he had his other account deleted, so he can't post using it.

[The Sixth Rat Packer]

excuse me people!!!! THIS IS ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

ALLLLLLLL ABOUUUUUUUUUUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

lol

BTW: did someone say something about Lynn taping us up? Hmmmmm....

[U2Lynne]

excuse me people!!!! THIS IS ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

ALLLLLLLL ABOUUUUUUUUUUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

lol

BTW: did someone say something about Lynn taping us up? Hmmmmm....
So sorry, we just have a habit of getting off-topic around here. We try and keep that sort of thing in The Lounge, but habit is habit!

And for your taping pleasure...

http://boutique.demonia.com/demonia/photosbou/I257290.jpg


Oh shit, I went off-topic again! So sorry. If you want to buy shows, then that is your prerogative. We do appreciate you sharing anything you are willing to share. Is that back on-topic?

[ZJLI]

So sorry, we just have a habit of getting off-topic around here. We try and keep that sort of thing in The Lounge, but habit is habit!

And for your taping pleasure...

http://boutique.demonia.com/demonia/photosbou/I257290.jpg


Oh shit, I went off-topic again! So sorry. If you want to buy shows, then that is your prerogative. We do appreciate you sharing anything you are willing to share. Is that back on-topic?

I love you. :wave:

[ZJLI]

excuse me people!!!! THIS IS ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

ALLLLLLLL ABOUUUUUUUUUUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!



:lol4: :thumbsup

[The Sixth Rat Packer]

http://boutique.demonia.com/demonia/photosbou/I257290.jpg



*eyes widen*



Is that back on-topic?

um....what?