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AAR.oner
2008-07-26, 02:34 PM
got a show that is in DVD-RAM format burned to a DVD+R [4.7GB]...video is approx 30 mins in length, and is complete

so the disc has 2 folders:
the VIDEO_RM folder containing the VIDEO_RM.bup & VIDEO_RM.ifo files
the VIDEO_TS folder containing the usual .bup, .ifo, and .vob files

VIDEO_TS folder size = 5.22GB

how can a 5.22GB folder be on a single layer 4.7GB DVD+R??? :hmm:

jamroom
2008-07-26, 02:53 PM
Voodoo - that's how. Watch your ass. ;)

direwolf-pgh
2008-07-26, 03:33 PM
the extra space came from the UDF cluster size transfer to your hard drive cluster size.

(there isnt more data - just more empty space in your hard drive clusters) did you rip the DVD with a utility or just copy/paste ?

Understanding Clusters
...Before you can appreciate the way UDF works, you must understand how clusters work. A cluster is the smallest possible unit of hard disk storage. Clusters range in size depending on the size of the hard disk and the file system used. However, regardless of the size of the cluster, even a one-byte file consumes an entire cluster. Therefore, if you save a one-byte file on a hard disk that has a 16KB cluster size, the file will consume the entire 16KB.

Larger files span multiple clusters. For example, if you save a 34KB file on a hard disk that uses 16KB clusters, the file will consume 48KB. The first 32KB is stored in the first two clusters, which are completely used. However, the remaining 2KB will be placed in the last cluster. So, 2KB of the last cluster is used and 14KB is wasted.
http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netos/print.php/625711

i guess you could say you're truly 'clusterfucked' :D

ameyer17
2008-07-26, 03:37 PM
It's not cluster size. DVDs don't have that many files.
Two options:
1) It's actually dual-layer
2) Corrupted filesystem
Honestly, though, I'm not sure #2 is possible.

direwolf-pgh
2008-07-26, 04:24 PM
interesting guess ameyer17, but i like Jamrooms explanation better.. its voodoo.
or maybe..this dvd was ripped to an external FAT32 drive.

AAR.oner
2008-07-26, 09:25 PM
so i tried the disc in both the mac and the pc...not ripping/dragging anything, the mac reports the disc as 5.2GB, same with the VIDEO_TS folder alone...the pc shows the disc as 1.77GB [My Computer screen], but when i rightclick>properties for the VIDEO_TS folder its saying 5.22GB again

i know for a fact it isn't a dual layer disc, so that's out...corrupted filesystem, i dunno but i highly doubt it...so i'm thinking its gotta be the cluster issue...but what i'm still confused about is, has does this affect us torrenting this? should i go the usual route [drag&drop VIDEO_TS, create md5, etc], or is there a way to "fix" the clusterfuck and get it back to showing up as the appropriate 1.77GB? maybe rip it with DVD Decrypter?

AAR.oner
2008-07-26, 09:58 PM
went ahead and tried ripping it as a disc image using DVD Decrypter, then burned a new disc...the mac shows the new disc as 1.77GB, but the VIDEO_TS folder as 5.22GB

i don't want folks to have to d/l 5.22GB worth of "data" for only 1.77GB of real data...i'm at a loss :hmm:

paddington
2008-07-26, 10:44 PM
went ahead and tried ripping it as a disc image using DVD Decrypter, then burned a new disc...the mac shows the new disc as 1.77GB, but the VIDEO_TS folder as 5.22GB

i don't want folks to have to d/l 5.22GB worth of "data" for only 1.77GB of real data...i'm at a loss :hmm:

what does the data size show ON your hard drive before you burn it back?

I can't see how cluster size differences could account for over 2x as much data difference... since it's only a handful of files (mostly large ones).. if it was thousands of MP3s, maybe.

in the files you ripped, on the hard drive, at a command prompt in the video_ts folder, do this:

DIR /A:DHSRA /S /O:N > videots.txt

and post the contents of the videots.txt output file, here, please

direwolf-pgh
2008-07-27, 07:04 PM
this one is kinda bothering me... its a weird problem.
and yes I agree with you guys that normally it would take a TON of little files for a standard cluster issue to occur.

my swag is it stems from the original DVD-RAM disc..
was it 'closed' for compatibility ?
is the Video_RM folder causing the issue?
is it DVD-RAM / DVD drive transfer issue ?

i've been reading about all sorts of issues when dealing with DVD-RAM video discs.
anyway, try this thread - its about your 'unique' VIDEO_RM folder and stuff. http://forum.videohelp.com/topic299589.html

my swag is its a transfer issue from the DVD-RAM sector format. interesting that the dvd decrypt gave the correct size & burn..good luck.

Pimpbot5000
2008-07-27, 08:02 PM
found this in that linked thread:
http://forum.videohelp.com/topic299589.html

On a DVD+RW disc, the VIDEO_RM folder can be best comprehended as a temp folder for the recorder. You have no need to use it. Ignore it. At worst, it may cause troubles trying to ISO rip the disc.

This thread mentions the size discrepancies
http://forum.videohelp.com/topic259410.html

The only way I can think of that a 30 min DVD quality video can be 5.22 GB is if the audio is uncompressed 24/48 or more likely 24/96.

paddington
2008-07-27, 09:46 PM
ok... here are the files on the disc.

Notice, they add up to the 'impossible' total. I thinkL

1) the directory structure is screwed up and all those files aren't the length reported
-or-
2) this is actually a DVD9 (but why does it report 1.8GB in some cases?)
3) the same thing got put to disc as three identical titles, maybe? Notice the size are exact matches... that would be odd... usually the last file is a different (smaller) size...

of course, that depends on how you author it - but it's odd the there are three titles, each with two VOBs, all the same size:

2008-07-27 03:26 PM <DIR> .
2008-07-27 03:26 PM <DIR> ..
2007-10-12 09:37 AM VIDEO_TS.BUP 14,336
2007-10-12 09:37 AM VIDEO_TS.IFO 14,336
2007-10-12 09:37 AM VIDEO_TS.VOB 51,200
2007-10-12 09:37 AM VTS_01_0.BUP 28,672
2007-10-12 09:37 AM VTS_01_0.IFO 28,672
2007-10-12 09:37 AM VTS_01_1.VOB 1,073,170,432
2007-10-12 09:37 AM VTS_01_2.VOB 794,550,272
2007-10-12 09:37 AM VTS_02_1.VOB 1,073,170,432
2007-10-12 09:37 AM VTS_02_2.VOB 794,550,272
2007-10-12 09:37 AM VTS_03_1.VOB 1,073,170,432
2007-10-12 09:37 AM VTS_03_2.VOB 794,550,272
11 File(s) 5,603,299,328 bytes


Aaron - does this disc play in a standalone? If so, can you determine how much time it thinks it has remaining at the beginning? Does the disc have three different distinct programming choices? (for instance, a main feature, a behind the scenes, some long slide-show set to music, etc) or just the main feature?

I'm wondering if this could just be reburned with the VIDEO_TS.??? & VTS_01_?.??? files, and be good to go.

Pimpbot5000
2008-07-27, 10:54 PM
The only way I can think of that a 30 min DVD quality video can be 5.22 GB is if the audio is uncompressed 24/48 or more likely 24/96.

^^ but it would have to be an out of standard DVD, becuase the total bitrate is limited to about 10 Mbps.


So basically 5.22 GB for a 30 minute video that conforms to the DVD standard is impossible, unless there are lots of bonus features w/photos or extra audio without video or something.

pawel
2008-07-28, 04:13 AM
Maximum that system may report for a single layer R+ disc is around 4.7 GB, while real size of files that can fit to disc is 4.483 GB.

Not sure for this case but I saw many times that for standalone authored discs some programs report the contents twice, even the files are not physically doubled. However, it doesn't explain why 30 min. or 1.7 GB rises to 5.22 GB :wtf:.

Aaron, did you copy the disc to HD?

paddington
2008-07-28, 04:31 AM
Maximum that system may report for a single layer R+ disc is around 4.7 GB, while real size of files that can fit to disc is 4.483 GB.

Not sure for this case but I saw many times that for standalone authored discs some programs report the contents twice, even the files are not physically doubled. However, it doesn't explain why 30 min. or 1.7 GB rises to 5.22 GB :wtf:.

Aaron, did you copy the disc to HD?

he did, and sent me the dir output from the folder on the HD... list is above.

KoolKat
2008-07-28, 05:23 AM
Delete the RM folder...its a + thing ;)

K_K

AAR.oner
2008-07-28, 07:24 AM
i'll check some of those links this afternoon, thanks! aight, here's some background on this...might help, might not...

when copying from the disc to my hd to run the specs above [james' post], i only copied the VIDEO_TS folder & not the VIDEO_RM folder...

this was from a VHS > SA recorder transfer over in Holland...no multiple titles, slideshows or audio features--just a straight transfer that clocks in around 26mins or so w/ typical SA menu and random chapter points...it arrived to us on a standard Sony single layer DVD+R

bitrate specs according to MPEGStreamclip:
AUDIO -- AC3 2/0, 48 kHz, 256 kbps
VIDEO -- MPEG-2, 704 576, 4:3, 25 fps, 9.55 Mbps, upper field first




so that said, on to yer ?s:



my swag is it stems from the original DVD-RAM disc..
was it 'closed' for compatibility ?
is the Video_RM folder causing the issue?
is it DVD-RAM / DVD drive transfer issue ?

i have no idea about any of the above...this wasn't transferred by us or the kid who sent it over to us to liberate, so detailed info on the transfer is unknown


my swag is its a transfer issue from the DVD-RAM sector format. interesting that the dvd decrypt gave the correct size & burn..good luck.
Decrypter and reburn caused [I]the disc to appear the normal size of 1.77GB, but the VIDEO_TS folder itself still reported as 5.22GB




1] does this disc play in a standalone?
2] If so, can you determine how much time it thinks it has remaining at the beginning? 3] Does the disc have three different distinct programming choices? (for instance, a main feature, a behind the scenes, some long slide-show set to music, etc) or just the main feature?
1] yes
2] shows the proper 26mins and change as its playing thru...dunno about total disc time reported before actually playing the disc, i'll check this evening
3] nope, just the main title




but it would have to be an out of standard DVD, becuase the total bitrate is limited to about 10 Mbps.


So basically 5.22 GB for a 30 minute video that conforms to the DVD standard is impossible, unless there are lots of bonus features w/photos or extra audio without video or something.

Maximum that system may report for a single layer R+ disc is around 4.7 GB, while real size of files that can fit to disc is 4.483 GB.

Not sure for this case but I saw many times that for standalone authored discs some programs report the contents twice, even the files are not physically doubled. However, it doesn't explain why 30 min. or 1.7 GB rises to 5.22 GB :wtf:.

looks like the video bitrate is higher than normal, but not enough to account for the 1.77GB v. 5.22GB size difference...i tried demuxing/re-authoring to see if that would fix the problem and DVDSP wouldn't mess with it, said the video stream's bit rate was too high...doesn't surprise me since above 9Mbps isn't really standard


I'm wondering if this could just be reburned with the VIDEO_TS.??? & VTS_01_?.??? files, and be good to go.
never thought of that, will try this afternoon


i'll check those links ya'll posted tonight as well, i have a feeling its a DVDRAM thing i've never seen before...but wondering if maybe James is right re: the title being "recorded" 3 times [hadn't noticed the identical file sizes til you mentioned it]...i'ma try burning just the first VTS stream and see what we get


cheers for all the help ya'll! :thumbsup

AAR.oner
2008-07-29, 12:02 AM
I'm wondering if this could just be reburned with the VIDEO_TS.??? & VTS_01_?.??? files, and be good to go.

that seems to have worked james...cheers for the idea!

deleting VTS_02_x & VTS_03_x had no effect...looks to be the same as the original...i don't understand why the SA/DVD-RAM structure would be that way in the first place, but whatever -- it works right?! :D

paddington
2008-07-29, 12:29 AM
I'm wondering if this could just be reburned with the VIDEO_TS.??? & VTS_01_?.??? files, and be good to go.

that seems to have worked james...cheers for the idea!

deleting VTS_02_x & VTS_03_x had no effect...looks to be the same as the original...i don't understand why the SA/DVD-RAM structure would be that way in the first place, but whatever -- it works right?! :D

so odd... the RM folder never could have been the culprit as the files in the VIDEO_TS folder still added up to be over 4.7GB...

anyway, glad it worked. Would like to know why the standalone created those extra identically-sized files, though... very odd..

KoolKat
2008-07-29, 05:03 AM
that seems to have worked james...cheers for the idea!

deleting VTS_02_x & VTS_03_x had no effect...looks to be the same as the original...i don't understand why the SA/DVD-RAM structure would be that way in the first place, but whatever -- it works right?! :D

As i said.Delete the RM folder...it's a + thing.
Virtually...if you get me

K_K

AAR.oner
2008-07-29, 06:02 AM
yeah, it definitely has to do with being in DVD-RAM structure...i still don't understand the SA's purpose of having the main track on there 3 times, virtual or not

i hear what yer sayin K_K, but deleting just the VIDEO_RM folder didn't fix it...i had to delete the VTS_02_x & VTS_03_x files from the VIDEO_TS folder itself

still can't get DVDSP to accept it, so no working menus, but oh well...maybe we can finally at least get this seeded now...thanks again erybody for helping figure this one out

KoolKat
2008-07-29, 09:27 PM
If you want me to IFO Edit in the original menus which as you know will involve no re-enc just give me a shout.. at least the meat is sorted out now ,side salad is optional i suppose hehe.

K_K

AAR.oner
2008-07-30, 06:20 PM
werd, cheers for the offer K_K!

i actually forgot about IFOEdit...never use the PC for any video work...i might give it a go myself, something new to try...but i'll probly PM ya for some help along the way if you don't mind