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View Full Version : Audio video synch conundrum


Von
2008-04-05, 12:01 PM
I have an old vhs of a show featuring Massacre at a metal fest in Tampa, FL in 1986. the tape has a lot of jumps because the filmer didn't feel it necessary to tape the talk between the songs. One thing I do have, also from that time is the audio from the sound board of the same show. Technically, neither recording is complete and the Video has a few more gens (at least four or five from the master) on it from the audio (which I believe is no more than three from the master, I had a freind who knew the band).

No matter how I slice it I know there will be a lot of work ahead of me for the following reasons:

1. The audio on the video is slightly sharper in pitch (hence a shade faster than the audio on the cassette.

2. In order to keep the cassette audio complete (for the portion that I have), gaps will need to be filled with some kind of visual material.

There is also this consideration:

Massacre is considered an important band in death metal, they were one of the first to sound like that.

This raises a couple questions:

1. First if I go through with this attempt at a "restoration" of this performance will it clash with TTD's policies about "tweaking" sources?
I have all intent to share this when done and is it ethically wrong to do such a reassemblage?

2. How do I determine which sound recording is off?
and can anyone recomend a good program and tutorial to work with?

3. When restoring gaps in the video what would be appropriate filler?
there are few spare parts to this and at the moment I have considered using open source news footage from the time to just a "scene missing" card.

I have no intent of equalizing any of the audio sources to maintain their purity. Where video sound is the only source I plan to just matrix the two to keep the flow smooth so the diferences will be heard.
I know things of this nature have been done here before (Sunshine Daydream, comes to mind)
Any guidence to keep this legal for sharing here would be appreciated.

Current software that I have on hand for editing include a trial copy of Pinacle Studio 8, TMPGnc DVD Editor 3, and Roxio Easy Media creatror. If anyone knows how to use any of these to their full effect and can give guidence, it would be greatly appreciated.:)

AAR.oner
2008-04-05, 03:42 PM
you should be fine in regards to torrenting it here, nothing wrong with upgrading a video show with better audio

sounds to me like you'll do the VHS transfer, and you'll only use the cam's audio when there is no alternate SBD audio...as to the speed inconsistencies, considering the vid is in "clips" [i'm assuming the missing parts are in between songs], you shouldn't have that much drift [as opposed to if the video was one long shot] -- so at each break int he video, cut & re-align the next song's vid with the audio...if its still off by the end of each track, i recommend adjusting the speed of the vid, NOT the audio...in this case, you'd want top slow the speed of the video track to match the audio

as for filler, use whatever you want...personally i think open-source footage that fits the feel of the music would be nice, but pics or whatever werks as well

as for the points where the audio source switches, you'll want each source to be peaking around the same amount [so the overall volume of each is about equal], and then a few second fade between the two blend the two aight

can't help you with those programs specifically, but any other ?s and i'll try to help as best i can

Five
2008-04-05, 07:48 PM
some great info in this thread as well
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37589

schmoe75
2008-04-06, 12:25 PM
you should be fine in regards to torrenting it here, nothing wrong with upgrading a video show with better audio

sounds to me like you'll do the VHS transfer,
As long as you aren't capturing with a standalone. You can not do any video editing w/o re-encoding it if you capture with a standalone...then it will not be allowed here. If that's the only way you can capture, it'd be best to send the tape to someone who can transfer it properly.

KoolKat
2008-04-06, 04:35 PM
you should be fine in regards to torrenting it here, nothing wrong with upgrading a video show with better audio

sounds to me like you'll do the VHS transfer,
As long as you aren't capturing with a standalone. You can not do any video editing w/o re-encoding it if you capture with a standalone...then it will not be allowed here. If that's the only way you can capture, it'd be best to send the tape to someone who can transfer it properly.

I say again ,it depends on what standalone and models you use.What abilities and functions that has and how connections can be in/outputted.

2000 for example does a lot more than 30 and Optinica does a lot more than Samsung.
But i get your drift for the majority of consumer standa's.

K_K

As for your editing Von..another option for you maybe ,look for cut aways in the vid to edit in so that you can re-align your timeline setting.Then cut back.The crowd,face close ups etc
That's if you don't want to mess with the audio which i know can be a bugger sometimes.

schmoe75
2008-04-06, 04:48 PM
I get what you're saying KK, but as along as the SA is capturing to mpeg2, any video editing done (be it necessary or not) afterwards re-encodes it.

Do you know of any that caputre as .avi?

Von
2008-04-06, 08:08 PM
I'm using a Plextor PXTV402U video capturing device which is hooked up to my computer The original capture was done in MPEG2 at 29.97 fps, 6000 kb/s and the audio from the video is captured in LPCM (same as my last two DVD posts) all of this is following the guidelines set here. The soundboard tape was captured using EAC and saved in wav format, then sectioned using Roxio Sound Editor to be able to synch the video easier.

This project is a new area for me and I want to do it a close to right as I can.

E_rock
2008-04-06, 08:23 PM
http://www.videohelp.com/

http://www.doom9.org/

KoolKat
2008-04-07, 03:42 AM
I get what you're saying KK, but as along as the SA is capturing to mpeg2, any video editing done (be it necessary or not) afterwards re-encodes it.

Do you know of any that caputre as .avi?
No ..but i do know more than 1 ,in the way of editing tools and software that frame edit and export SR lossless.

Done the right way ,if you have the players to do it, you can make a 240 line 1970's SVHS transfer look better than a year old filmed show captured through the PC as AVI with a 30 quid digital.
All those AVI's have to go through an encoding process once on your PC so you have bloated and re-compressed to a NEW structure what WAS in effect mpeg2 to start with going down that alley as well.
Filters,etc ,can be applied to both ways during transfer if needed and in some cases in real time ,again depending on what you have to do this.

Basically ,if you have it in 1 format and you can find software/hardware that can the deal with it SR lossless ,the boat has the same name on it.

Don't get me wrong Joe,I am not saying that 1 way is better than the other.I am saying that "to PC" is NOT the only way to achieve exactly the same outcome in the transfering of video objects!

K_K

pawel
2008-04-07, 04:07 AM
as along as the SA is capturing to mpeg2, any video editing done (be it necessary or not) afterwards re-encodes it.
Of course not. There are many (free) tools which allow to cut on the GOP level without any re-encoding or on the frame level which re-encode just a few frames of the GOP being changed. For example VideoReDo is so good as you won't notice any re-encoding, no matter what (high) quality/bitrate is the source. Audio can be replaced separately, so no need to touch the video part.

schmoe75
2008-04-07, 08:07 AM
Right pawel, I was referring to editing (color correction, etc) not splitting frames to 'fill' missing gaps (but yeah, that's still editing) :-)
Don't get me wrong Joe,I am not saying that 1 way is better than the other.I am saying that "to PC" is NOT the only way to achieve exactly the same outcome in the transfering of video objects!
Thanks for the info KK :thumbsup