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View Full Version : The tracker doesn't show leechers for this torrent..SOLVED !!! (tech explanation please..)


pancho1111
2008-01-31, 01:02 AM
I'm the only seeder for this:

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=48829&highlight=jimi

to +-11 leechers, with DHT and peer exchange in utorrent not enabled, but the tracker doesn't show the leechers, I redownloaded the torrent file, but no change..
What is the problem?

Info:
jimi1968-02-17.torrent
(Seeders: 1, Leechers: 0, Completed: 193
UL Speed: 15.50 KB/s, DL Speed: 0.00 KB/s, Full Size: 329.51 MB, Torrent File Size: 26.9 KB, 260 views)

direwolf-pgh
2008-01-31, 02:56 AM
looks fine to me - nice show ta boot

U2Lynne
2008-01-31, 10:56 AM
Huh? I don't see any leechers on that show, just two seeders. I'm not sure what you are saying here. Maybe a picture to go with this?

saltman
2008-01-31, 11:10 AM
Please post a screen of your client that shows connected peers. I would have guessed that DHT was enabled and that is why it is not showing up. Maybe the other seed does have DHT enabled (and the torrent was created with DHT) and they are seeding out to the peers you see that aren't showing up. That doesn't make complete sense... sense you should be seeding to them also. and they should show up here.

pancho1111
2008-01-31, 01:26 PM
Was confusing for me also,
yesterday at the beginning the torrent had DHT and Peers interch. enabled, so I nulled this option, but anyway the lechers (12!!) continued connected,
even stopping and restarting the torrent...(no more with the X flag, X flag= direct peers connection more or less)
But today I found in tapecity the same torrent, uploaded with credits for TTD, and 11 seeders ( the ones that
yesterday were also my lechers I guess)..
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4120/jimitapecityiq7.jpg

if you know how the utorrent client arranges to make the connection, please explain,
Thanks to all the responses ! :D

PS: today I don't see not the seeders or the lechers, only I can see 0(2) seeders, which is normal situation..

bot
2008-01-31, 11:05 PM
hey genius.. the url shows tapecity!

pancho1111
2008-01-31, 11:40 PM
hey genius.. the url shows tapecity!

you genius also, I'm seeding in TTD as explained in the first line of this thread..

but thanks to good luck found I was seeding to tapecity leechers, as explained above:lol:

dementrium
2008-02-01, 12:48 PM
Francisco, they asked you to post a screen of your torrent client {Bingo}. They could double-checked IP addresses. :hmm:
Also, as far as I remember, Bootcity has never been accurate to display actual torrent usage {Bingo}. (If they fixed that nowadays, I refrain the last {Bingo})

I don't get this bit. Are you saying that the amount uploaded at BC (for the same torrent) is also accounted on TTD?


But today I found in tapecity the same torrent, uploaded with credits for TTD, and 11 seeders ( the ones that
yesterday were also my lechers I guess)..

U2Lynne
2008-02-01, 01:17 PM
What I don't get is that a bittorrent client doesn't just go out into cyberspace and look for other torrents with the same name and files. It needs to be directed to someplace (the tracker) to get connected to other users on that tracker with the same files. So, how can a torrent file suddenly pick up seeders and leechers from another site without being directed to that tracker? If bittorrent clients could do that, then we would be seeing this sort of thing all the time and all have exagerated peers/leechers for all our torrents, because believe me, there are a TON of tracker sites out there sharing many of the same torrents.

Five
2008-02-01, 01:20 PM
bizarre... I would think this would happen only with DHT and/or ppl adding multiple trackers to the properties window.

dementrium
2008-02-01, 01:32 PM
Perhaps he has the two separate torrents (BC & TTD) pointing to the same fileset, and think he's been double credited on both trackers? {Bingo?}

U2Lynne
2008-02-01, 01:45 PM
bizarre... I would think this would happen only with DHT and/or ppl adding multiple trackers to the properties window.
If somebody uploads a torrent here with multiple trackers listed, they get stripped upon download (cuz it would be messed with when the passkey is added). I don't know if BC/TC does the same thing over there.

direwolf-pgh
2008-02-01, 01:47 PM
Perhaps he has the two separate torrents (BC & TTD) pointing to the same fileset, and think he's been double credited on both trackers? {Bingo?}agree..you can combine multiple sites on a download - if its from public sites.
but in this case, it would be two separate (personalized) torrent metafiles on the client pointing at the same folder.

dementrium
2008-02-01, 03:00 PM
you can combine multiple sites on a download - if its from public sites.


Say, he has a TTD torrent running. Then, add manually BC announce url to the properties window. He has to get an error when the client announces to BC. Is this correct?

But, using this tweak, could some peers from BC (or outer space) leak into his torrent?

U2Lynne
2008-02-01, 05:15 PM
you can combine multiple sites on a download - if its from public sites.


Say, he has a TTD torrent running. Then, add manually BC announce url to the properties window. He has to get an error when the client announces to BC. Is this correct?

But, using this tweak, could some peers from BC (or outer space) leak into his torrent?
If you have an account at BC also, you could add the BC announce url with the passkey and successfully share at both sites with the same torrent file (assuming the contents are exactly the same). But, I don't think this guy did that unless he did it by accident. I'm not that familiar with uTorrent, so I don't know if you could maybe select both torrents and 'merge' them. I'm not even sure what the stats would look like for that either. I suppose it would combine them, but I'm not really sure. :hmm:

pancho1111
2008-02-03, 02:33 PM
Thank for all the answers. Sorry, I was out of home in the weekend, so I didn't replay the posts, let me explain some uncertainties expresed above:
_ I didn't post a window of the utorrent as was asked by U2Lynne cause when he asked that to me at the next day, the download was finished, no more leechers to show in the window, only the TTD seeders, so at list I wanted to show the BC post.
_ Enable DHT and Share with peers were both enabled in this torrent when the problem raised.
_ I don't care about the ratio, mine is good because I share a lot.
_ I didn't put both trackers in the properties of this torrent, I'm not jocking, is only a technical desire to learn about what happened.

I think that the same way as there is hash value for the files, maybe is the same for the whole torrent (I don't know yet).

When the tracker is down , with DHT enabled, you can share with others peers, no need for the tracker server, your client looks in the internet for other torrent like yours ( maybe looking for a hash value? )
When this happens, you have the X flag for the peers connected to you, meaning it was made with DHT, not with the tracker.
End of my knolewedge...

pancho1111
2008-02-05, 09:08 PM
Today I see 0(6) seeders , and TTD shows only 2

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42175&stc=1&d=1202263531&torrent=true

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42176&stc=1&d=1202263531&torrent=true

direwolf-pgh
2008-02-05, 09:26 PM
right click that torrent > select Properties

take a look at the trackers for that torrent

pancho1111
2008-02-05, 09:51 PM
It's only one tracker, the TTD http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/tracker/announce.php?passkey=abc...................

dementrium
2008-02-05, 09:54 PM
Excuse me for hijacking again.

I'm trying right now what has been discussing before RE: putting multiple trackers in the properties window. Currently, doing it with one seed completed from Dime. Added the announce for TTD. It worked! :thumbsup
The best part is that the client reports the total uploaded amount to both trackers, regardless where the peers come from.

It's funny because I have 0 peers from Dime, but their page reports the amount I'm uploading to 3 peers here.

The question is, how dishonest is to do this? :nono: :lol4:
But the most important question is, can they (or you) detect this action?

_ I didn't put both trackers in the properties of this torrent, I'm not jocking, is only a technical desire to learn about what happened.


Pancho, whenever you have technical desires, you can't go wrong with U2Lynne! ;)

dementrium
2008-02-05, 09:58 PM
It's only one tracker, the TTD http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/tracker/announce.php?passkey=abc...................

EDIT: Just noted you were careful. Sorry.

direwolf-pgh
2008-02-05, 10:03 PM
i have this show & just jumped on.

at first my client showed 10 seeds & 3 leechers

right click torrent > advanced > Clear Peer List

now im showing 3 seeders & 1 leech :hmm:

now its showing 2 seeders & 2 leechers.. something is up with this metafile

*but Im not connecting with them (which is good cause they arent on this site)

one leech ip is: 64.16.229.23

this is weird - the seeder and leecher # are changing all around :lol Im disconnecting.

pancho1111
2008-02-05, 10:10 PM
THANKS direwolf-pgh's !! now somebody else could see it..

I'm connected to 0(4) seeders and 1 leecher, he downloaded from me 6.76 MBytes..

also he is 64.16.229.23:31259

pancho1111
2008-02-05, 10:22 PM
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42186&stc=1&d=1202268017

direwolf-pgh
2008-02-05, 10:32 PM
seeders are correct now

still have that one leecher mentioned above

perhaps we should stop seeding on this torrent - wait 15 then reseed
the rouge leech should fall out of the swarm then. (my swag anyway)

pancho1111
2008-02-05, 10:42 PM
seeders are correct now

still have that one leecher mentioned above

perhaps we should stop seeding on this torrent - wait 15 then reseed
the rouge leech should fall out of the swarm then. (my swag anyway)

Thanks for your help to clarify this..!, :)
scuse my bad english, but in the aspect of who is downloading my file I dont really care, is jimi music, and is good to spread it in everyway..

U2Lynne
2008-02-05, 11:12 PM
Is this the same one on Tapecity? http://www.tapecity.org/showthread.php?t=22129&highlight=jimi (I would guess so since it says right in the notes that he got it from here.) They show 9 seeders and 0 leechers right now - although there are 14 seeders and 0 leechers on their Peers List (which has always frustrated me and is a big reason why I don't want to switch to that tracker). And here's the one here which shows 2 seeders and 0 leechers: http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=48829&highlight=jimi The big question is.... who is this one leecher you guys are seeing? :hmm:

edit: I now see you on the TC tracker, Mr. Wolf. :wave:

direwolf-pgh
2008-02-05, 11:13 PM
agree.
and thank you pancho.

this provokes some interesting thoughts.

lynne the shows md5/files are identical - same seed/show

direwolf-pgh
2008-02-05, 11:20 PM
I just downloaded the torrent from tapecity

utorrent asked if I wish to add the tracker.

now Im connected to both sites - which would connect and bridge both swarms.

someone else must have done this as well.

U2Lynne
2008-02-05, 11:26 PM
I just downloaded the torrent from tapecity

utorrent asked if I wish to add the tracker.

now Im connected to both sites - which would connect and bridge both swarms.

someone else must have done this as well.
I wonder if that is what had to happen initially - just one person to say OK to combining it. I can't imagine that the same torrent on two different sites would somehow 'find' each other without some connection like what you just did. Otherwise, as I said before, we would see this sort of things a LOT more often.

direwolf-pgh
2008-02-05, 11:32 PM
agree. mystery solved. :lol:

something else was interesting as well..

when the second tracker was added, the client began to 'hammer' the two trackers
constantly updating back and forth.

U2Lynne
2008-02-05, 11:51 PM
agree. mystery solved. :lol:

something else was interesting as well..

when the second tracker was added, the client began to 'hammer' the two trackers
constantly updating back and forth.
You better watch that, we've got scott's script running and you don't want to get banned again. :D

pancho1111
2008-02-06, 01:23 AM
At the end, I downloaded the torrent from TC to compare in the utorrent "General" tab for the torrent, the values for Pieces and Hash for both of them, TC and TTD, and are identic:
TTD: 1319 x 256 kB (have 1319)
TTD: 562AF9C94AB7FB8750393FE30F4CE4CDA265635D

TC : 1319 x 256 kB (have 1319)
TC : 562AF9C94AB7FB8750393FE30F4CE4CDA265635D

I deleted the TTD torrent, and loaded the TC one.
After In the properties of the torrent I DELETED the TC tracker url, and restarted it.
Now I'm still connected to the same leecher, it has the H flag, which means: H = Peer was obtained through DHT.

This is that this leechers of the first day and todays one, found my seeded files through DHT, (because the hash table was the same) not the trackers, and the trackers cannot "see" or follow the DHT trafic...
It seems is not necessary to have the two trackers in the torrent to be connected.

I was interested to read more about DHT, found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_hash_table

....Distributed hash tables (DHTs) are a class of decentralized distributed systems that provide a lookup service similar to a hash table: (name, value) pairs are stored in the DHT, and any participating node can efficiently retrieve the value associated with a given name. Responsibility for maintaining the mapping from names to values is distributed among the nodes, in such a way that a change in the set of participants causes a minimal amount of disruption. This allows DHTs to scale to extremely large numbers of nodes and to handle continual node arrivals, departures, and failures.

DHTs form an infrastructure that can be used to build more complex services, such as distributed file systems, peer-to-peer file sharing and content distribution systems, cooperative web caching, multicast, anycast, domain name services, and instant messaging.
Notable distributed networks that use DHTs include BitTorrent (with extensions), eDonkey network, YaCy, and the Coral Content Distribution Network...

pancho1111
2008-02-06, 01:50 AM
4:30 in the morning, still non convinced of being made all possible tests,
I deleted the torrent, and created a new one with utorrent.
Without tracker url and 256 KB size for the pieces, as the original torrent,
with the same Folder for the files (always was the same files)
and started seeding...
Big Surprise :clap:
The Hash value and Pieces are the same than for TC and TTD, see above.:lol:

I got 0(9) 1(1) and this leecher started downloading, now he is 98%... his flags are UHE.

I don't need a tracker to share , but my ratio will suffer a bit :)

If you don't believe, please don't insult to me and make the test yourself:D

U2Lynne
2008-02-06, 11:54 AM
We believe you, we aren't saying we don't. I think you have hit the key point of why this is happening - the hash value is the same for the torrent on both sites. And it's the same because the seeder over at TC downloaded it from here, make a new torrent with the TC announce, and uploaded it over there (he says this in his notes). My guess is, he then started his torrent and did as Wolf showed - he said yes to combine the two torrents. This connected everybody right from the start. I think it's a very interesting situation.

jamroom
2008-03-16, 06:45 AM
I remember reading this and thinking this would never happen to me, well it has!

I was uploading the TMV show which I already had done on Dime. I downloaded the torrent file and opened it in uTorrent and got the "this torrent you are trying to add is already in the list of torrents, do you want load the trackers form it?" pop-up. Stupidly I clicked on yes, and now the damn thing is uploading to the Dime torrent and I cannot find a way of stopping it. I have removed the Dime torrent from my client and have deleted that torrent file. I also deleted the TTD torrent file and re-downloaded it, but I'm still uploading to the Dime torrent. I cannot see a way of resetting this. Can anyone help?

jamroom
2008-03-16, 06:57 AM
^^^
Edit to say that it seems to have stopped after restarting uTorrent. Weird.

Also weird is not being able to edit my post above after 10 minutes. I presume there is a reason for this?

U2Lynne
2008-03-16, 12:12 PM
I think the key is to make a small change to the torrent (like add an extra blank line to the text file) before uploading it to another site. That way the hash is different and uTorrent won't think it is just the same torrent.

As for the editing.... posts have a time limit of ten minutes. First posts, however, can be edited indefinitely.

jamroom
2008-03-16, 02:28 PM
Thanks for the explanation Lynne. However, I uploaded the youthmovies set here and then at Dime without changing anything and never had this problem. I will make a small change to the torrent in the future though.

Cheers!