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GRC
2007-07-14, 02:35 PM
I'd like to start uploading things here; I have azureus, so that'll handle the uploading/seeding stage.

If I've read things correctly, if I have a bundle of raw .flac files, Trader's Little Helper will generate all of the checksums and addtl technical txt files I need to go with the .flac files

I'm OK with using Notepad to type up a summary and lineage note (!)

Where I'm coming unstuck is determining what's best strategy to get the data ripped from CDs to my HD as .flac files; my discs to be ripped will be in two categories; standard CD, 16-bit, 44.1kHz, and 24-bit, 96kHz, both generated from an Alesis Masterlink. Some of my source tapes are off-air FM recorded to reel-to-reel tape, and I want to do the best for them. I get the impression EAC is in favour, but it seems to rip to WAV files, not FLAC - should I consider using EAC to create WAVs and convert the WAVs to FLAC?

I've googled a fair bit to see what's out there, but thought I would ask for recommendations as well. I tried Audacity, managing to record to audio projects without any problems, but for some reason it won't export my projects as .flac files, although the option to do so is on the menu .... mentioned this in a separate thread, though.

Regards, Graham

Tubular
2007-07-14, 05:37 PM
For the 24/96 audio, you can burn a CD24:

http://www.alesis.com/support/faqs/masterlink.html#g3

What is a "CD24"?

A CD24 is a special kind of Compact Disc that can be made and played by the Alesis MasterLink. It allows you to store audio at higher sample rates and word lengths than is allowed by the standard consumer "Red Book" CD format. A CD24 can also be played in a computer's CD-ROM drive as long as your soundcard and software can handle the resolution.

How can CD24s be read by a computer?

Alesis CD24s follow the common PC and Mac-compatible CD-ROM standard ISO 9660, and the audio files on the disc follow the AIFF format readable by almost all higher-resolution audio software.

AIFF is the Apple version of the uncompressed PCM Windows .wav format. I'm not sure if these discs will be read by Windows as wavs or as aiffs. All you have to do is go to start > my computer > click on your CD/DVD drive. No special software program is needed. Then select all the files and copy them to a folder on you hard drive. There is no "digital audio extraction" or DAE like what is done with ripping audio CDs with EAC, because these are data discs. Data discs copy much more reliably than audio CDs because they have built in error correction. Maybe you can just change the file extension from .aiff to .wav for each file. Then you can compress the wavs to FLAC with Trader's Little Helper.

For the CD-quality 16/44.1 audio that has been burned to audio CD, you can rip them into .wav format with EAC and then compress to FLAC with Trader's Little Helper. I think EAC is capable of ripping directly into FLAC, but I have never done it this way. I find it to be much simpler to just rip CDs into .wav and then compress to FLAC with a separate program, like TLH or FLAC Frontend. It would be good to configure EAC's read offset, use secure mode to rip, and save the .log file that is generated as proof of an accurate error-free rip.

If you can burn the 16/44.1 files as ISO 9660 data discs, like the CD24s mentioned above, that might be better, because you won't have to bother determining the read offset of your computer's CD/DVD-ROM drive. It might be worth it to configure the read offset anyway so you can make perfect copies of any commercial audio CDs. I'm don't know if the write offset is corrected on the Masterlink's burner when it burns audio CDs. If the discs are burned as data, the offsets are not an issue.

Tubular
2007-07-14, 06:26 PM
I remember reading that the HHB-850 professional CD burner didn't need to be write-offset corrected. Its drive was factory set with the correct offset. So maybe the Alesis Masterlink is the same way. You could do a transfer in two different ways and it would yield identical high quality results. Like this:

DAT @<hidden> 16/44.1 coax out > coax in HHB-850 burn audio CD > EAC error free secure mode rip with read offset corrected > wav file

DAT @<hidden> 16/44.1 coax out > coax in bit accurate sound card > wav file

However, if your DAT is 16/48, then the resampling from 16/48 > 16/44.1 that is done in the standalone audio CD burner may not be as good as the software resampling of programs like Sony Soundforge, Wavelab, r8brain (free), or Adobe Audition. Also you won't have a chance to archive the 16/48 files for DVD-A burning if you use a standalone CD burner.

GRC
2007-07-14, 06:42 PM
You had me worried there - I thought at first the whole of your post was just reprinting the Alesis manual for me ..... all I've done with the CD24s so far is archive some special analogue shows and store them for safekeeping; didn't occur to me that they could be so simply ripped to the HDD.

Since my last post, I found the 'Essential ripping guide for EAC' at http://users.fulladsl.be/spb2267/

This looks a good doc, will be digesting this over the next day or so .... also in the process of installing EAC and TLH, so all going well there... :wave:

Regarding the last para, when burning 16-bit 44.1, the Alesis is burning a 'red book' CD which is playable on a standard CD player; when I browse these in the PC drive, the separate tracks are written as .cda files; as per commercial CDs, as far as I can tell. I take this to mean they're not being 'burned as data' in your terms ...?

Regards, Graham

GRC
2007-07-14, 06:50 PM
I remember reading that the HHB-850 professional CD burner didn't need to be write-offset corrected. Its drive was factory set with the correct offset. So maybe the Alesis Masterlink is the same way. You could do a transfer in two different ways and it would yield identical high quality results. Like this:

DAT @<hidden> 16/44.1 coax out > coax in HHB-850 burn audio CD > EAC error free secure mode rip with read offset corrected > wav file

DAT @<hidden> 16/44.1 coax out > coax in bit accurate sound card > wav file

However, if your DAT is 16/48, then the resampling from 16/48 > 16/44.1 that is done in the standalone audio CD burner may not be as good as the software resampling of programs like Sony Soundforge, Wavelab, r8brain (free), or Adobe Audition. Also you won't have a chance to archive the 16/48 files for DVD-A burning if you use a standalone CD burner.


Um, this seems to assume I have an HHB850, which I don't .... I've got a TASCAM DA-20 DAT, and an Alesis Masterlink ... but I'll be concentrating on archiving and torrenting the analogue sources to start with; your Avatar is quite appropriate for this context, as most of my reel-to-reels were recorded on a Revox B77 .... I also lack the 'bit accurate' sound card.

Reports are that the A/D convertors in the Alesis are of professional quality, and I've heard no reason to doubt this fact so far ....

Regards, Graham

Tubular
2007-07-14, 08:14 PM
Yes, the .cda files on a Red Book audio CD indicates that it is not a CD-ROM data disc. If the Alesis is capable of burning resolutions below 24/96 to CD-ROM, then that would be the way to go, IMO. This way, when you transfer those DATs you can archive the 16/48 files on CD-ROM for future DVD-Audio burning. And you can always burn audio CDs as well for personal use. Both the Masterlink and the HHB-850 are professional grade, so the Masterlink's CD writer drive offset probably doesn't need to be corrected, like the 850.

My dad had a TEAC reel to reel from the early 70s, but he didn't really use it much. I just love the sound of analog sourced vinyl :D ; I'm not too thrilled with CDs. 16 bit isn't completely horrible, but 24 bit is much better. I'm hoping for something even better in my lifetime, like 48 bit or 64 bit.

Re: the A/D converters on the Alesis Masterlink:

"Do I need to purchase an external converter box to record or play back at high sample rates?

No. The MasterLink has extremely high-quality internal A/D and D/A converters (the AKM 5393 and 4393) that can sample at 96 kHz and have 24-bit resolution. In the opinion of many professionals, these converters and the circuitry around them sound as good as some external converters costing as much as the MasterLink itself."

Five
2007-07-14, 10:54 PM
for ripping 16bit/44.1kHz audio cdrs, use EAC. some more info here (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41476).

GRC
2007-07-15, 07:32 AM
Got 3 files from one of my CD24 discs copied to the HDD, and they saved as .AIF files. Renamed them to .WAVs and attempted to use FLAC frontend to decode/save them as flacs. FLAC frontend is v. 1.7.1 etree edition, and I also installed the flac codec from sourceforge.net, v. 1.1.4b.

Added the input files to the FLAC frontend file window, and when I click decode, it opens up a cmd prompt window and attempts to do things with the files.

For all 3 files, it protests;

'File not found; (folder name)/V SPHINX.flac' where V SPHINX.WAV is the first input file, similar msg w diff filenames for other 2. So I tried creating an empty txt file in the target directory, renaming it V SPHINX.FLAC, and get a new error;

'Output file (folder name)/V SPHINX.flac' already exists, use -f to override.

Now I'm familiar with batch files, and using switches such as -f to modify the execution of the file, but how can I use -f from the frontend? :hmm:

Is there any way of copy/pasting the text from the cmd prompt window in Win XP? There's a few other messages about headers etc but the above seemed the most significant..... :hmm:

Regards, Graham

Tubular
2007-07-15, 10:09 AM
After you rename the .aif files to .wav, will the .wav's play in Foobar2000 (more lightweight) or Winamp (more graphics)? Both of these media players are free. That would be a sign that the problem is not with the .wav's. I just renamed a 16 bit .wav that was on my computer to .aif, and it played fine with Windows Media Player, so I assume it works the other way as well. I don't think WMP will play 24 bit .wav files unless you have a 24 bit capable sound card. Winamp or Foobar2000 will play 24 bit files even if you don't have a 24 bit soundcard.

Then, I would put all the wavs from one show into Trader's Little Helper, select "audio file details." In "len mode," click "show details" If there are any sector boundary errors or header errors, this will be displayed. Fix any errors if necessary. Then encode to FLAC.

Or in FLAC frontend, set the level to 8, check "verify" box, check "align on sector boundaries" box. Set output directory the same as the input directory, then hit "encode" FLAC frontend might have a problem if there are specific header issues I think. Try TLH if you have problems.

It is important to put all the wavs from one show into TLH or FLAC Frontend when sector boundaries will be fixed because a little bit of silence (a fraction of a second) will be added to the end of the last file usually. If they are done individually or a few at a time, silence will be added to the end of the last file and your show will not be seamless, it will have slight pauses between tracks.

Tubular
2007-07-15, 10:45 AM
If you want to make a CD quality copy of your 24/96 seeds as well, you can use the free r8brain sample rate/bit depth converter to take the 24/96 wavs and convert to 16/44.1. It is a quality program, and rivals the programs Soundforge, Wavelab, and Audition. Use the very high quality settings for best results. You won't have to burn an audio CD on the Masterlink and then use EAC to extract this way.

r8brain free sample rate/bit depth converter:
http://www.voxengo.com/downloads/

GRC
2007-08-18, 12:19 PM
If you want to make a CD quality copy of your 24/96 seeds as well, you can use the free r8brain sample rate/bit depth converter to take the 24/96 wavs and convert to 16/44.1. It is a quality program, and rivals the programs Soundforge, Wavelab, and Audition. Use the very high quality settings for best results. You won't have to burn an audio CD on the Masterlink and then use EAC to extract this way.

Way too much like hard work .......... if I'm looking to make a 24/96, I'm recording from an analogue source (Revox B77 or cassette) onto the Alesis HDD. The Alesis will record in 24/96 on the HDD, and allow me to edit track splits etc, and will also allow me to make a CD24 disc on the internal CD drive, or a red book CD at 44.1kHz, 16-bit. So no need to use software to make the CD-quality backups, I'll just burn them in the Alesis.

Regards, Graham

Tubular
2007-08-18, 02:05 PM
If the internal resampling and dithering in the Alesis is high quality, and I'm sure it is, then it would probably yield results that would be indistinguishable to most ears vs. resampling and dithering with a PC software program. However, I think Wavelab is the best program for dithering. It has Apogee UV22HR dithering, which is the best I believe. r8brain is a very good free sample rate converter, but I think the pro version of r8brain (not free) is the very best available for resampling. Not that it makes too much difference, though. The folks who really care about sound quality will want the 24/96 audio, and pretty soon most everyone will be listening to 24 bit audio if it is available.

For the analog reels and cassettes, it would be good to transfer it as few times as possible, as I have read that every time you play back a tape, the sound quality degrades a little. So it would be ideal to transfer a tape once at 24/96, then archive the 24 bit raw files, then edit the 24 bit files if necessary (tape flips, patches) and archive those, master and process the 24 bit files if necessary (I think only engineers and experts do this though) and then archive those, then make a CD quality version from the edited, mastered files by using software conversion (on a PC or Alesis type deck), then put it on the shelf until 64 bit A/D converters are introduced.

GRC
2007-08-19, 11:05 AM
For the analog reels and cassettes, it would be good to transfer it as few times as possible, as I have read that every time you play back a tape, the sound quality degrades a little.

Tell me about it. I'm just mighty relieved that no-one was selling Ampex tape in the UK when I was getting into reel-to-reel. From the look of your posts, I don't think I need mention tape baking in any detail .....

I've got ONE Ampex cassette in the whole collection of thousands, and it's the ONLY one that exhibits a problem that stops me playing it. I'll get around to baking it one day. A few of the others have degraded a bit, but in the main, they're all still perfectly usable, a mix of TDK, Maxell in the main. I was in the habit, when my masters were recorded onto cassette, of immediately or soon after, making a 'copy master' for general listening. The copy would take the hammering, and the true master sat on the shelf.

As far as the reel-to-reels go, they fall into 2 categories - 7" reels, recorded on my Akai 4000DS, and 10.5", dating from when I got my Revox in 1978. A couple of the 7 inchers decayed way too quickly - both manufactured by Scotch / 3M - one of these was recorded in 1975/6, and some patches are still OK, but some are dropping out really badly; I get the impression the magnetic material is just falling off the binder. The second Scotch was recorded in 1978, and became unusable a few short years later. Luckily I got a repeat broadcast of the main item on that tape, but I lost a few things that I'd really rather have kept.

Some of the early BASF 7" tapes are going off a bit, but I'm gradually getting them backed up to digital media.

The 10.5" are a mix of TDK, Agfa, Memorex, and most seem to be holding up OK - these days, I only play them when I'm transferring them to the Alesis. As an added safety precaution, I 'unlace' the tape from the tape guides and head assembly when fast-forwarding or rewinding, so that the only contact the tape has is on playback. It's a bit of a pain, but safer.

Regards, Graham

GRC
2007-08-19, 11:25 AM
After you rename the .aif files to .wav ..... Then, I would put all the wavs from one show into Trader's Little Helper, select "audio file details." In "len mode," click "show details" If there are any sector boundary errors or header errors, this will be displayed. Fix any errors if necessary. Then encode to FLAC.

I renamed the .aif as .wav, put them into TLH audio file details, and clicked show details; for each file, I get the message;

"file is not a supported type of audio file, or is corrupt."

Also, TLH doesn't have .aif as one of its supported file types......


Looked at the same disc with EAC, and it says 'No audio CD in drive'

There must be a way....

Regards, Graham

Tubular
2007-08-19, 05:06 PM
Any Mac people out there know anything about renaming .aif files to .wav for use in Windows? :wave:

I think the 24/96 .aif files that you renamed to .wav have incorrect headers. I don't know if Trader's Little Helper can fix header issues. :hmm:

I think you need a program called shntool. It will allow you to fix a lot of problems with .wav files. It actually fixes .wav's, not .shn's, the name is a bit of a misnomer. You can get it here for free: http://www.etree.org/shnutils/shntool/ Get the Win32 version where is says "where can I get it?" Unzip the file, and drop the shntool.exe file in your C:\WINDOWS folder. It is a command line program, so you have to use the command prompt (start > all programs > accessories > command prompt). It is easier if you have the folder with the .wav's you want to analyze and fix on your C:\ drive so you don't have to do lots of typing. I don't think the folder can have any spaces in it. If it is the Rolling Stones May 15, 1974 24bit SBD for example, rename it to rs1974-05-15.sbd.flac24 Then do a len check on the files from the command prompt. Make sure the command prompt says 'C:\' You may have to change it by typing 'cd C:\' Then type 'shntool len rs1974-05-15.sbd.flac24/*.wav' You will get a readout. If there is an 'h' in the middle column, that indicates header errors. To fix them type 'shntool strip rs1974-05-15.sbd.flac24/*.wav' Then you will get a bunch of .wav's that have the word 'stripped' appended to them. Those stripped files are fixed. Now you can delete the word stripped from each file and encode them to FLAC with TLH, if that was the only problem in the len check. If there are other errors there will be different letters in the three columns from the len check. Refer to the shntool.pdf for what other errors or reports mean, and how to fix them. For one, the files are better than CD quality, so that will be one of the reports (not an error). Good luck, it might seem hard, but once you get used to it it is easy. :thumbsup

btw, I'm definitely not an analog tape expert. What is 'tape baking'? Yeah, I was thinking that analog tapers such as yourself made a copy of the master and listened to the copy instead of hammering the master. I've also heard that some people did that with their vinyl; made a tape copy of the vinyl and played the tape instead of the vinyl.

Tubular
2007-08-19, 05:21 PM
Have you tried playing back the 24/96 .aif files that have been renamed to .wav in foobar2000 (free)? That would be a good indication that the audio data is OK and that renaming them worked.
http://www.foobar2000.org/

Windows Media Player can't play 24 bit files unless you have a 24 bit soundcard, I think.

GRC
2007-08-19, 06:26 PM
btw, I'm definitely not an analog tape expert. What is 'tape baking'?

Darn, your avatar was so convincing. Analog tape has two layers, sometimes three - a plastic strip, a coating of magnetic material, and sometimes a matt back-coating to encourage neater winding; you need some 'glue' or binder to hold them together. In the 1970s, the formulation that Ampex used was changed, for some reason, and the new formulation was faulty, in that it reverted to a sticky, goo-ey state, rather than staying dry. The end result being that when you play some Ampex tapes from this era, they play for 5 minutes before clogging up the tape heads, guides, etc, and sometimes bringing the tape recorder to an embarassing halt. Quite a conundrum; Ampex tapes from the 1950s are better preserved and more usable than those from the 1970s......

The remedy is to slow bake the tape in a finely-controlled oven to dry it out. Once the binder has dried, the user is encouraged to play back once, twice, or an absolute minimum number of times, and make darn sure of getting a usable copy made, onto digital media or otherwise, before the binder loses its cohesion again.

That's the short version - google 'Ampex baking' or 'Ampex shedding' to get a good picture of the hoops that those in the recording industry are having to go through to salvage what is fairly recent material.

Pictures here (http://vintageaudioequipment.blogspot.com/2007/03/sticky-shed-syndrome-with-ampex-tape.html)

Regards, Graham

Tubular
2007-08-19, 08:11 PM
Oh man, that's terrible. I wonder how many classic albums and shows from the 70s were recorded on Ampex tape? :disbelief Or did most US and UK studios use a different brand of tape for their 2" multitrack masters? Well, if the tape is unusable, at least the vinyl can be transferred if it isn't too worn out. ;) Oh, I got my avatar from here: http://www.analogstereo.com/

Five
2007-08-20, 11:56 PM
wow there's a lot going on here I'll probably get a chance to read more of it tomorrow

the one big thing I noticed that is a problem is that you can't just rename aif files to wav ... just like if I renamed a shn file to wav it doesn't make it a wav. you can open the aif in a wav editor and resave as wav, or perhaps make the conversion using foobar2000

there's an old tutorial over here (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1112), it is for shn to flac but should work for aif to wav. the audio content in the aif and wav will be identical since they're both lossless, just a little bit different formatting.

also, if you've got TLH installed you can run shntool from cmd.exe but in this case I don't think that will help you due to the renamed files.

Tubular
2007-08-20, 11:59 PM
:hmm: I can rename a 16 bit .wav to .aif and it will play fine, even in Windows Media Player :hmm:

Five
2007-08-21, 01:21 AM
I just tried it out, renamed wav>aif or aif>wav opens and plays fine in winamp or cep, but foobar0.8.3 and TLH both choke on it.

so make a proper conversion from aif>wav and tlh will be happy... seems like its some little thing in the header, like you were saying a few posts up.

Tubular
2007-08-21, 03:04 AM
I just tested a 24/96 .wav in shntool:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Tube>cd C:\

C:\>shntool len les2007-08-11.mk41v.m222.mk21.cmc6.flac24/*.wav
length expanded size cdr WAVE problems filename
3:37.425 125236988 cxx -- ----- les2007-08-11.mk41v.m222.mk21.
cmc6.flac24/les2007-08-11t17.wav
3:37.425 125236988 B (total for 1 file, 1.0000 over
all compression ratio)

C:\>

I then renamed the extension to .aif, and the file wouldn't play in foobar2000 v0.9.4.3. TLH also choked on it.

Then I renamed it back to its original .wav extension, and the file played back in foobar2000 fine, and I got the same shntool result as above. TLH also accepted it.

I don't think renaming the extension has any impact; I think the header reverts back to the .wav format upon renaming. Oh shit, just thought of this: GRC, do you have your Windows system set to show file extensions? The default is to hide them. Thanks Bill Gates. :rolleyes: Go to any folder on your desktop or C:\ drive or anywhere and go to Tools > Folder Options > View > make sure the 'Hide extensions for known file types' box is UNCHECKED. Then hit 'apply', then 'ok'. That should do it. :thumbsup

Tubular
2007-08-21, 03:53 AM
It's funny, I actually think the low cost BOB, DFC, ~8' stand, CA (Church Audio) STO 10 Omni's (J-Disk) > CA ST-9100 Preamp > Microtrack (TRS) @<hidden> 24/48 absolutely destroys the multimillion dollar Schoeps hypercards/tubes + wide cards/cmc6 > V3 > Sound Devices 744 (@<hidden>/96) for that Claypool show. :lmao: :lol

Five
2007-08-21, 03:54 AM
I don't think renaming the extension has any impact; I think the header reverts back to the .wav format upon renaming.
the header is not changed by altering the extension. just the extension. in your experiment above you gave the wav an incorrect extension then switched it back to what it should be. windows even warns you that it is not a good idea.

an aif file with the extension altered to wav is still an aif file except with the incorrect extension. so GRC needs to do a proper conversion aif>wav.

Tubular
2007-08-21, 04:01 AM
If renaming it is actually incorrect, then why can a 16 bit .wav renamed to .aif play back fine in Windows media player? The picture for the file changes. I still don't get it. :hmm:

Tubular
2007-08-21, 04:09 AM
some players can handle an incorrect header and some can't?

Five
2007-08-21, 04:13 AM
an incorrect extension can be handled by some players

the header is different, and is not changed by altering the extension

Tubular
2007-08-21, 04:19 AM
got it :thumbsup Can you convert .aif to .wav with Audacity or another free program?

rhinowing
2007-08-21, 04:24 AM
I believe that xAct will do it. Not sure though, I don't know macs too well.

Tubular
2007-08-21, 04:35 AM
In the helper programs section of the shntool page here there is an aiff program for use with shntool. Everything there is free: http://www.etree.org/shnutils/shntool/

Five
2007-08-21, 04:45 AM
I haven't got audaccity on this comp but I believe it can do this... just have to be very careful to set the export quality in the preferences to the correct bit depth and sample rate ... so that's a bit of a headache. I'm using CEP which makes it very easy, but not a free prog.

However I've found a simple (and somewhat slower) method...

use flac frontend (flac.sourceforge.net), drop the aif file in, set compression to minimum (for speed), then convert to flac. clear flac frontend, then add the flac just created and hit 'decode'. it will give a proper wav file. the flac file that results from this can just be deleted, its just a stepping stone.

I just tested this and it worked great with a 16bit/44.1kHz AIF file. 24bit should be no problem, either. maybe I can double-check that tomorrow just to be sure.

also I gotta read the rest of this humungo thread!! :lol:

Tubular
2007-08-21, 04:50 AM
I thought you mods read everything! :disbelief :lol

Five
2007-08-21, 04:50 AM
ps I'm assuming that GRC is on PC since he mentions using EAC.

shit, I have to read this thread ... where is GRC getting AIF files from on a PC, I wonder?? Everything I use on my PC is WAV unless I go out of my way to make AIF because somebody wants it for their mac.

Tubular
2007-08-21, 04:57 AM
The data CDs his Alesis Masterlink burns are in .aif format. The stacks of CDs will eventually cost more than a bit accurate sound card from someone like M-Audio, though. The Alesis has a coax out, but no USB or firewire.

GRC
2007-08-21, 04:59 AM
ps I'm assuming that GRC is on PC since he mentions using EAC.

shit, I have to read this thread ... where is GRC getting AIF files from on a PC, I wonder?? Everything I use on my PC is WAV unless I go out of my way to make AIF because somebody wants it for their mac.

Thanks for dropping in to help.

I'm on a PC - right now.

All will be revealed regarding the source of the AIFs when you 'start from the very beginning; a very good place to start' .....

Regards, Graham

GRC
2007-08-21, 05:00 AM
Darn, Tubular beat you to it!

Five
2007-08-21, 05:04 AM
okay, I'm reading along now...

just put the aif files in flac frontend without renaming and set the compression level to 8, verify enabled, align on sector boundaries enabled. all the other checkboxes should be empty (disabled). then hit 'encode' and bob's yer uncle.

GRC
2007-08-21, 05:07 AM
Just as well, 'cos I'm finding my command line skills with shntool are VERY rusty .....

"CD T:\torrent data files" is a valid 'change directory' command, isn't it ...?

Regards, Graham

GRC
2007-08-21, 05:11 AM
okay, I'm reading along now...

just put the aif files in flac frontend without renaming and set the compression level to 8, verify enabled, align on sector boundaries enabled. all the other checkboxes should be empty (disabled). then hit 'encode' and bob's yer uncle.

FLAC frontend sez "Only WAV files can be encoded!" (and the exclamation point is in the error, just to make sure you get the message.....)

Regards, Graham

Five
2007-08-21, 05:11 AM
Graham, for the sake of simplicity try flac frontend to go aif>flac

then use tlh on the resulting flac set after that for len check, fingerprints etc etc

tlh doesn't support aif but flac frontend does.

GRC
2007-08-21, 05:22 AM
Doesn't look like Frontend supports .aif here ....

Regards, Graham

Five
2007-08-21, 05:23 AM
FLAC frontend sez "Only WAV files can be encoded!" (and the exclamation point is in the error, just to make sure you get the message.....)

Regards, Graham
well shit that's bizarre because I just tested it on my system using flac frontend 1.7.1 etree edition :wtf: maybe its because I tested with a 16bit/44.1kHz aif file.

anyhow, my insomnia is reaching its limit... I'll put audacity on this computer tomorrow and we'll get this sorted out somehow.

Tubular
2007-08-21, 05:26 AM
or there is always shntool command line with the aiff plugin. :lol: :wave:

GRC
2007-08-21, 05:27 AM
!!!

GRC
2007-08-21, 05:31 AM
Well, that was easy! Import to Audacity, and export as .wav !!!!

Just need to upload the wav converted to flac and see who can play it, now!

Regards, Graham

Tubular
2007-08-21, 05:42 AM
http://24bit.turtleside.com/

Most anyone with a DVD player will be able to play it these days, it's really exciting! You need Audio DVD Creator ($40) to make an audio only DVD-Video disc playable on most DVD players. DVD-Video supports 16/48, 24/48, and 24/96 audio. And the free program DVD-Audiofile creates true DVD-Audio discs, playable on DVD-Audio/Video players. With DVD-Audio discs you can burn 16/44.1 all the way up to 24/192. This means I can put about 7 hours of 16/44.1 audio on one 4.7 GB DVD-A disc!! So instead of burning 6 CDs for two shows, I burn one DVD-A!! I love it.

GRC
2007-08-21, 05:59 AM
TLH protests at the 24-bit wav files, though....

Warning: file 'V CATSE .WAV' is not CD-quality
Warning: file 'V LHKEEP.WAV' is not CD-quality
Warning:
Warning: file 'V SPHINX.WAV' is not CD-quality
Error: could not fix files due to errors, see above

Tubular
2007-08-21, 06:22 AM
Maybe try encoding the 24 bit wavs to FLAC in FLAC Frontend (level 8, verify, SBE align, everything else unchecked).

direwolf-pgh
2007-08-21, 10:28 AM
they are two different file types

you can not just rename a .aiff to .wav

its a conversion process - I use quicktime pro.

U2Lynne
2007-08-21, 10:53 AM
Perhaps someone should mention this to roann. It might not be too hard for him to make TLH accept aif files. xACT will accept both wav and aif to encoding and will decode to either also.

(I, like Five, have not read this whole thread but it looks like something I should!)

GRC
2007-08-23, 02:57 PM
Maybe try encoding the 24 bit wavs to FLAC in FLAC Frontend (level 8, verify, SBE align, everything else unchecked).

This seems to work OK, but can't enable SBE align, FLAC frontend protests, saying it can only do this with 44.1kHz files. Removed this option, and all seems to be OK. Next thing to do is make a torrent with them, upload and see if the good folk of The Den can play them OK.

Thanks, people, for all the help!

Now that I've got 3 .flac files, how do I generate a checksum file for them? TLH usually does that for me ....

Regards, Graham

Five
2007-08-23, 03:02 PM
there should be a 'fingerprint' button on flac frontend that can generate these fingerprints for you.

GRC
2007-08-23, 03:12 PM
:hmm: there should be a 'fingerprint' button on flac frontend that can generate these fingerprints for you.

Tried it, and it seems to generate an empty .txt file...... :hmm:

Regards, Graham

Five
2007-08-23, 03:19 PM
hmm... I haven't posted a 24-bit FLAC show before, but I see scads of them on our tracker with ffp fingerprints posted someway

when you open the txt file using notepad it is blank? what is the filesize? if its over 0k can you attatch it here?

GRC
2007-08-23, 03:45 PM
OK, I got it - 'add' the flac files into FLAC frontend (not the .wav files) and click fingerprint............ :D

Regards, Graham

Five
2007-08-23, 03:47 PM
:D :cool:

I guess the SBEs aren't so much of an issue with 24bit shows

next time, you could cut the show in audacity using 'snap to cdda sectors' if you want the 24bit version to match better with the 16bit... that is, if you're planning on also creating a 16bit version

GRC
2007-08-23, 04:19 PM
next time, you could cut the show in audacity using 'snap to cdda sectors' if you want the 24bit version to match better with the 16bit... that is, if you're planning on also creating a 16bit version

If I'm doing a 16-bit and 24-bit version, I can create both directly from the Masterlink; with 24-bit files on the HDD, it will let me burn either a 'red book' 16-bit CD, or a CD24 (with .aif files). Despite Tubular's suggestion that various software packages might have better performance, I reckon the pro-quality D/A conversion and sample rate conversion in the Alesis will do me just fine.........

Regards, Graham

GRC
2007-08-23, 05:09 PM
That's my torrent up at the audio torrents forum, if anyone fancies a listen at some vintage Van der Graaf ...

Regards, Graham

GRC
2007-09-02, 07:18 AM
Oh, crap.

Uploaded what I thought were 16 and 24-bit versions of my AC/DC, and it didn't occur to me to look at the file sizes generated by TLH in the 16-bit, and by FLAC frontend in the 24-bit - and, as someone pointed out just now, they're the same!

Need to check, but looks like either Audacity or FLAC fronted have, whether of their own volition, or by my error, downsampled the 24-bit back to 16-bit.... :hmm:

Darn.

Regards, Graham

Tubular
2007-09-02, 09:49 AM
Yeah I just checked the Van Der Graaf 10-24-77 download and it is 16 bit / 96 kHz. FLAC Frontend won't dither/truncate or downsample, so it must be Audacity. You must be exporting in 16 bit.

Tubular
2007-09-02, 10:33 AM
You can check the bit depth/sample rate of a .wav by right clicking > properties > summary.

GRC
2007-09-02, 10:40 AM
Grrr.... data from the first track of my AC/DC torrent -

16-bit CDR ripped to .wav with EAC gives a .wav file of 56,786 KB, and thru TLH, I get a .flac file of 38,375 KB

24-bit CD24, .aif file of 55.4 MB, imported to audacity with all settings that I can find to 96kHz, 24-bit, then exported as .wav gives a .wav file of 85,234 KB, so looks as though we're still in 96kHz, 24-bit to this point.

(Note; I may have omitted the 24-bit settings when I did the VdG torrent - so we should probably assume that's why that one's still 16-bit)

However, the .flac file from putting this .wav through FLAC Frontend is 39,770 KB - almost the same as the 16-bit file from TLH - so it looks as though FLAC Frontend is the culprit :hmm:

I'm using FLAC Frontend v. 1.7.1 - I can't find any options that allow me to specify the output file format.....

So, essentially, I'm still looking for a method to generate a 24-bit .flac from a 24-bit .wav...............

Apologies to all those who've picked up the 24-bit torrents, it appears that they're plain ol' 16-bit after all....... sorry. Will upload the genuine article once these tech issues are resolved. :mad:

Regards, Graham

GRC
2007-09-02, 10:42 AM
Boy, is my face red..... just like the 'smilie'

Tubular
2007-09-02, 11:26 AM
The 16/44.1 .wav you get when you rip the red book audio CD is about 55 MB, but the 24/96 .aif is also about 55 MB? Are you sure you are burning 24bit/96kHz CD24s with the Alesis? Maybe you are burning 16/44.1 .aif files? :hmm:

Also is .aif compressed at all? Because you are importing a 55 MB .wav, then exporting an 85 MB .wav? :hmm: Maybe you are importing a 16/44.1 .wav and exporting a 16/96 .wav? Audacity will dither and truncate 24 > 16 but I don't know if it will bit expand from 16 > 24.

After you import the .aif, then export to .wav from Audacity, it is a 24/96 .wav? You can find out if it is 24/96 by right clicking > properties > summary.

FLAC Frontend will definitely not dither/truncate (convert 24 > 16) or downsample (96khz > 44.1kHz). All it does is compress losslessly.

Tubular
2007-09-02, 11:29 AM
Before you import the .aif file to Audacity, is it a 24/96 .aif? Maybe you can find out the bit depth/sample rate by right clicking > properties > summary.

GRC
2007-09-02, 02:11 PM
Before you import the .aif file to Audacity, is it a 24/96 .aif? Maybe you can find out the bit depth/sample rate by right clicking > properties > summary.

I'm importing the .aif to audacity straight from the CD24 created by the Alesis; so I'm 100% certain it is; place the disc in the Alesis and the display instantly shows 96k 24-bit.

I've deleted the original .wavs that I built the torrents from (just kept the .flacs), so have to repeat the process to get the details.... :mad:

Right-click only gives me file size and permissions info, nothing on sample rates etc...

Regards, Graham

Tubular
2007-09-02, 10:25 PM
The bitrate of a CD quality 16bit/44.1kHz .wav is 1411.2 kbps

The bitrate of a 24bit/96kHz .wav is 4608 kbps

A 24/96 .wav will be 3.27 times the size of a 16/44.1 .wav

So if the 24/96 .aif files are uncompressed, they will be 3.27 times bigger than a .wav ripped from a red book audio CD with EAC. Even if the 24/96 .aif's are losslessly compressed, they would still be about 1.75 times bigger than a 16/44.1 .wav

Hope this helps! Don't worry, you will figure it out. :)

Tubular
2007-09-03, 09:17 PM
GRC, if you are frustrated with Audacity, there are several other software programs that will get the job done much easier. Sony Soundforge (about $250 I think), Wavelab (about $600), or Adobe Audition (about $350). If you google there are $20 or $30 tools for converting formats, including .aif > .wav, but those programs have less features than the ones above. Here is a 21 day free trial of Cool Edit Pro (now called Adobe Audition):
http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/Cool-Edit-Pro-Download-2076.html
CEP is also handy for determining if a source is lossy or not, and I think you can use this feature even after the free trial has expired. Ask Five which program is the best value.

Tubular
2007-09-03, 09:28 PM
There might be old versions of Goldwave out there if you google. Goldwave was free at one time I think. :hmm:

rockthing
2007-12-23, 07:25 AM
This thread is a bit dusty now, but I was wondering what the necessity for converting the aif files to wav is? This seems to be the only thread in Technobabble that uses the therm '.aif'.

I use flac 1.1.1 command line tool. It compresses .aif, .wav and .raw not to mention decoding to either .wav or .aif (.wav is the default).

I recently started trying to use Garage Band and it seems to only export to .aif. I recently saw a recording on the archive that is .aif -> .shn. If my flac compression program will accept .aif files is there any reason to worry about changing .aif to .wav?

Tubular
2007-12-23, 06:00 PM
This thread is a bit dusty now, but I was wondering what the necessity for converting the aif files to wav is? This seems to be the only thread in Technobabble that uses the therm '.aif'.

His standalone ADC/burner burned data discs in .aif format, but he has a Windows machine.

I use flac 1.1.1 command line tool. It compresses .aif, .wav and .raw not to mention decoding to either .wav or .aif (.wav is the default).

I recently started trying to use Garage Band and it seems to only export to .aif. I recently saw a recording on the archive that is .aif -> .shn. If my flac compression program will accept .aif files is there any reason to worry about changing .aif to .wav?

We were trying to figure out a simple, free way to do it without using command line. I think he was having problems with the free program Audacity. If your FLAC compression program accepts .aif, then there is no reason to convert .aif to .wav first. Everyone who has a Windows machine who decodes those FLACs (made directly from .aif's) with Trader's Little Helper or FLAC Frontend will just get .wav files.

rockthing
2007-12-25, 05:28 AM
His standalone ADC/burner burned data discs in .aif format, but he has a Windows machine.



We were trying to figure out a simple, free way to do it without using command line. I think he was having problems with the free program Audacity. If your FLAC compression program accepts .aif, then there is no reason to convert .aif to .wav first. Everyone who has a Windows machine who decodes those FLACs (made directly from .aif's) with Trader's Little Helper or FLAC Frontend will just get .wav files.

:-)
Ok, Thank you. I'll go ahead and compress those .aif to .flac now. :clap:

:hmm: I must have forgotten about the part where he said he couldn't use the .aif because of Windows. Somewhere along the way I started wondering why he was going to so much trouble to convert to .wav.

So Windows machines will not deal with .aif files at all? :( I didn't know that. Bill Gates, what a wonderful human being. The only guy who can come close is the President of Sony. ;-) (PS. Blueray could spell the end to free-ware disk burning utilities!)


The flac command line tool is soo easy, though. I don't really see any reason to avoid it. Unlike the command line version of shorten, flac 1.1.1 (and older/newer) will compress an entire directory or a list of files in a batch and you only have to remember two or three flags. I keep the command in a text file just to double check.

But, maybe Windows did away with the command prompt utility at some point.

:)