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Audioarchivist
2007-07-12, 02:25 AM
I was trying to help someone configure Exact Audio Copy to accurately rip cd's, and all that kind of stuff, and couldn't find the same info I was so easily directed to when I did it for my machine.

There was a website that listed commercial cd's that EAC recognizes as test calibration discs, and a list of drives and their known offsets.

I think the site recently closed, or maybe I was just too sleepy/stupid to find it again...

Anyway, would someone be able to steer me in the right direction on easy and right ways to calibrate EAC?

How about that tutorial I was dreaming about? Does someone want to write one?

Thanks.

diggrd
2007-07-12, 02:50 AM
http://www.accuraterip.com/driveoffsets.htm

Audioarchivist
2007-07-12, 03:43 PM
http://www.accuraterip.com/driveoffsets.htm
That's a good place to jump off of, but that's not the site I remeber using before...
...and MY drive isn't on that list, either. There was a list of calibration discs (commercial releases that EAC recognizes) that allowed it to test and set the offsets.

Oh, wait, there is a list of discs that is on that site. Still, it's not the site that I remember using (unless this is a totally re-vamped version of it).

I remember having it specifically for EAC, this looks like a whole other program.

pmonk
2007-07-12, 03:52 PM
Bummer!


The Coaster Factory closed...

All stories come to an end, and so does The Coaster Factory. Due to lack of time and fading interests I couldn't keep the website up to date anymore. I left the website online for archival purposes, but the information on it was outdated and sometimes even incorrect. Several people pointed me at this and therefore I decided it might be better to close the website for good...

Audioarchivist
2007-07-12, 10:03 PM
Yes, that was it, The Coaster Factory.

Now how do we get access to that information, albeit that some of it was outdated and innaccurate, some stuff was right on the money.

Any EAC wizards ready to step up and write an EAC tutorial?

DanielG
2007-07-12, 10:08 PM
Yes, that was it, The Coaster Factory.
Now how do we get access to that information, albeit that some of it was outdated and innaccurate, some stuff was right on the money.

If you remember the address of the page, enter it into: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php and check out the archives...

stantheman1976
2007-07-12, 10:21 PM
Here's a text file I have sitting on my spare HD. Maybe this can help.

Andy L
2007-07-13, 10:12 AM
The old address of the site was http://users.pandora.be/satcp/tutorials.htm

Five
2007-07-13, 01:56 PM
Here's a text file I have sitting on my spare HD. Maybe this can help.
don't use this guide... there is some good stuff in it but the author recommends settings that are for the highest speed and no error detection and least error correction. secure mode should be used!

looks like the old guide is available on the way back machine... check "the truth about offsets" and "determining the offsets" part one and two.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070509132737/http://users.pandora.be/satcp/tutorials.htm

cicada
2007-07-14, 12:25 PM
Better minds than mine seem to be focused here & now. Can I jump in with my own question (please).

I found 2 cd's to match the list when I attempted to set things up correctly (yea). I get the same "Read Correction" each time I ran them (yea). Except they are not the same as each other (oh no..). So, each cd has a different read correction. I was encouraged when I got the same read with each cd, but became discouraged when they did not match each other.

Does this mean I will not be able to set up my drive for a proper read correction? I have spent hours reading the EAC set up instructions, Coaster Factory & pandora. I don't claim to be very computer savy, either. How about a litlle help, please?

Audioarchivist
2007-07-14, 01:59 PM
Better minds than mine seem to be focused here & now. Can I jump in with my own question (please).

I found 2 cd's to match the list when I attempted to set things up correctly (yea). I get the same "Read Correction" each time I ran them (yea). Except they are not the same as each other (oh no..). So, each cd has a different read correction. I was encouraged when I got the same read with each cd, but became discouraged when they did not match each other.

Does this mean I will not be able to set up my drive for a proper read correction? I have spent hours reading the EAC set up instructions, Coaster Factory & pandora. I don't claim to be very computer savy, either. How about a litlle help, please?
I bevieve that once you get the same readings from 2 different cd's you're on to something good.
It is just a matter of having that list of discs, and whether or not your pressings of those discs are exactly the same as the ones in the list. I've seen multiple pressings of the same releases (re-masters, made in different factories/countries, etc.) so be careful.
It's not easy, and now with coaster factory gone, it's gonna get harder...

cicada
2007-07-14, 02:25 PM
The discs are an exact match. I get +3556 (-3556 actual) on one of them and +102 (-102 actual) on the other. How do I do the math? If every cd is different I cannot make the calculation with one number. Maybe there is a step I missed somewhere?

Hey Audioarchivist...Howsit down on the island? I live in Vernon (BC interior). Small world!

P.S. I have been seeing dbpoweramp in some recent lineage(s). I am guessing it in not freeware, but an alternate way to get exact read offset. Any thoughts on this?

cicada
2007-07-14, 03:32 PM
Audioarchivist... is this the list you were looking for?
http://web.archive.org/web/20070202221754/www.exactaudiocopy.org/eac3.html

Five
2007-07-14, 10:53 PM
work from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070509132737/http://users.pandora.be/satcp/tutorials.htm

using the "determining the offsets" parts one and two. be sure to use separate read and write offsets so that perfect copies can be burned on other drives which have the correct separate write offset.

also set the speed to low & error correction to high, some detailed info here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070314005433/users.pandora.be/satcp/eac03.htm#-

also compare with the accuraterip database linked above. when you think you've got your read and write offsets correct, rip a short cd to wav, then burn a cd copy of that using EAC. then extract from that copy to another directory and generate st5 using TLH for both wav sets and the checksums should be identical. At least I managed to get it identical on my computer. If your read drive has variable offsets each time it rips you might as well leave it with no offset correction (0).

Tubular
2007-07-15, 11:53 AM
The Coaster Factory has more complex examples on how to do it in the "Determining the Offsets Part II" guide, but I have found through reading and experimentation a very easy, simple way to determine the read offset for any drive, if you already have another drive in which the read and write offset is known. First decode a FLAC or SHN set to wav that has no sector boundary errors or other errors in a len check. This method won't work if the FLAC or SHN set has SBEs or other errors, because EAC extracts without adding SBEs or other errors every time, whether there were errors on the original files that were burned to audio CD or not. Burn an audio CD of these wavs with EAC with the write offset corrected.

You can determine the write offset of your read offset corrected drive by decoding a FLAC set to wav, then burning with the write offset set to (0). Then extract a wav with EAC with the read offset corrected to a different folder. You may have to enable or disable the "overread into lead in and lead out." Sometimes there are problems with the first and last track of a disc, so use a wav from the middle for best results (drive or EAC can't overwrite into lead in/lead out 100% correctly?). Then use EAC's compare wavs feature and compare the extracted audio CD's wav with the original FLAC > wav from your hard drive. You will get a numerical sample value, and this is the write offset of the drive. Enter this value (positive or negative, I'm not sure) into the write offset correction field of EAC, and then burn another audio CD with EAC, this time the write offset will be corrected. Then extract a wav(s) from this burned disc. Sometimes there are problems with the first and last track of a disc, so use a wav from the middle for best results (drive or EAC can't overwrite into lead in/lead out 100% correctly?). You may have to enable or disable the "overread into lead in and lead out." The compare wavs feature report should say nothing, in other words, report no missing samples between the two wavs. All of the wavs should match using the compare wavs feature. You can prove that they match with md5s or FLAC fingerprints.

Then extract this write offset corrected audio CD with the drive that you want to determine the read offset for. You may have to enable or disable the "overread into lead in and lead out." Use a read offset correction of zero (0) in EAC. Now burn a data disc of the same FLAC or SHN set. Extract the FLACs or SHNs from the data disc with the drive that you want to determine the read offset for to a different folder. Decode these to wav. Now use the compare wavs feature of EAC, and compare these two:

1)any wav that was extracted from the write offset corrected audio CD using EAC with read offset correction zero (0) Sometimes there are problems with the first and last track of a disc, so use a wav from the middle for best results (drive or EAC can't overwrite into lead in/lead out 100% correctly?).

2)a data disc FLAC > extracted to hard drive > decoded to wav

You will get a numerical sample value, and this is the read offset of the drive. Enter this value (positive or negative, I'm not sure) into the read offset correction field of EAC, and then extract the audio CD again. Sometimes there are problems with the first and last track of a disc, so use a wav from the middle for best results (drive or EAC can't overwrite into lead in/lead out 100% correctly?). You may have to enable or disable the "overread into lead in and lead out" The compare wavs feature report should say nothing, in other words, report no missing samples between the two wavs. All of the wavs should match. You can prove that they match with md5s or FLAC fingerprints.

With this method you will be able to determine the read offset of drives that are not in EAC's drive database, and without a CD that is in EAC's CD database, provided you have another drive that is read/write offset corrected. Maybe members from TTD can mail out write offset corrected audio CDs and data FLAC discs to people who can't correct their own drives, and don't have another drive that is read/write corrected. Then using these discs, they can configure their drives proplerly.

Wouldn't it be much easier if the original Red Book specification for audio compact discs and CD players was unencrypted wavs on CD-ROM ISO 9660 data discs? Just imagine, every audio CD ever home-burned and professionally factory pressed would extract easily with Windows' or Mac's built in software and would be a perfect match of the original FLAC fileset every time, with no offsets to worry about. Slightly less minutes of music would have fit on each disc though. 70 minutes instead of 80?

cicada
2007-07-18, 08:30 PM
Arrrghh! I have overread on Lead-In only (no overread on Lead-Out). Since I have "a negative read offset or a positive read offset correction [I need] overreading into the Lead-Out in order to have no missing samples on extraction".

I was determined to settle this once and for all (with your help). This is the result of my best effort to properly set up EAC for lossless extraction. And, the final answer is that I will need to purchase a new drive.

Thanks for the help. At least I now know that my efforts are in vain with this gear.

Tubular
2007-07-19, 12:35 PM
Have you tried extracting both with the "overread into lead in and lead out" box enabled and disabled? Most drives have a positive read offset correction and not all of them need "overread into lead in and lead out" enabled. My drive is a Lite-On and has a positive read offset correction, and wouldn't extract the last track properly unless "overread into lead in and lead out" was DISABLED. There would always be a read error at the very end of the last track of a disc when it was enabled.

cicada
2007-07-20, 06:21 PM
Audioarchivist... It was not my intent to hi-jack this thread (my bad).

Tubular... I have determined that my offset correction is +120 (-120 actual). It appears that I will have missing samples on extraction since this drive has no overread on the Lead-Out...

However, as you suggested I have taken a disc and extracted with "overead on the lead in and lead out" enabled and then I did it again but this time disabled. Now what? Am I to compare these filesets? What program would tell me how they differ. Where do i go from here?

Tubular
2007-07-20, 07:36 PM
Cicada, when you extract a commercial CD with little or no scratches with the read offset corrected in secure mode of EAC, do you get read or sync errors on any tracks? Or do all the tracks extract OK and you get a message of "no errors occurred" at the end of the EAC log? If there were read errors, then it will say "there were errors" at the end of the rip log. Also, what kind of drive to you have?

Or are you talking about EAC reporting missing samples when using the compare WAVs feature when comparing these:

1)a write offset corrected CD that has been extracted with the read offeset corrected

2)an original FLAC or SHN set that has been decoded to WAV

cicada
2007-07-20, 08:26 PM
Cicada, when you extract a commercial CD with little or no scratches with the read offset corrected in secure mode of EAC, do you get read or sync errors on any tracks? Or do all the tracks extract OK and you get a message of "no errors occurred" at the end of the EAC log? If there were read errors, then it will say "there were errors" at the end of the rip log. Also, what kind of drive to you have?
I gotta go back and read your previous message about determining the offset. However, my drive is now shown clearly in the accurate rip database with great certainty (120 is the offset correction). My drive (in a compaq laptop): HL-DT-STRW/DVD GCC-4241N

But wait... My understanding of the info at Coaster Factory resulted in the statement that I would have missing samples (see link http://web.archive.org/web/20070218221907/users.pandora.be/satcp/eacoffsets02.htm (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20070218221907/users.pandora.be/satcp/eacoffsets02.htm)

About 4/5 down the page, I found this quote
If your drive has a negative read offset or a positive read offset correction it also needs overreading into the Lead-Out in order to have no missing samples on extraction. If the drive has a positive read offset or a negative read offset correction it needs overreading into the Lead-In. Anyway, don't worry too much if your drive cannot overread as only very few samples are missing at the beginning or end of a CD as can be read in The Truth About Offsets.

For the record:
No read or sync errors. The message I received from EAC extraction is "no errors ocurred".
I apologize for my confusion... I have not received EAC reports of missing samples. The desire to set up EAC correctly has caused me to read that Coaster Factory dissertation repeatedly, until my mind is marshmallow! As I mentioned above, I will give your earlier post another read and try to perform those operations over the weekend. Thanks!

Tubular
2007-07-20, 09:02 PM
"If your drive has a negative read offset or a positive read offset correction it also needs overreading into the Lead-Out in order to have no missing samples on extraction. If the drive has a positive read offset or a negative read offset correction it needs overreading into the Lead-In. Anyway, don't worry too much if your drive cannot overread as only very few samples are missing at the beginning or end of a CD as can be read in The Truth About Offsets."

I'm not sure how correct the above quote is. Lead in and Lead out refer to the first and last tracks of a disc, respectively. So it wouldn't happen to tracks in the middle of a disc. I think if you get missing samples on the last track of a disc when comparing these with the compare WAVs feature of EAC:

1)a write offset corrected CD that has been extracted with the read offeset corrected

2)an original FLAC or SHN set that has been decoded to WAV

then it has to do with some drives or EAC itself not being able to OVERWRITE into the lead out correctly when burning a CD, based on tests I have done.

Tubular
2007-07-20, 09:35 PM
Basically, if your read offset is properly corrected and you extract commercially made discs with EAC in secure mode and get "no errors occurred" at the end of a rip log, then there will be no missing samples on any tracks.

As I said above, my drive has a positive read offset correction (+594) and the last track of a commercial disc wouldn't extract properly without read errors unless the "overread into lead in and lead out" box in EAC menu > drive options > offset/speed was disabled.

It gets much more complicated if you are extracting home burned audio CD-Rs and comparing them to original FLAC or SHN filesets.

cicada
2007-07-21, 03:22 AM
It does not appear to have an effect with me one way or the other. I have tried "overread into lead in and lead out" enabled and disabled. I repeated this with the proper offset correction and then with no offset correct. Oddly, I get no errors reported when I extract a brand new commercially produced disc.

Here is an example of my log report
EAC extraction logfile from 20. July 2007, 18:28 for CD
Unknown Artist / Unknown Title

Used drive : HL-DT-STRW/DVD GCC-4241N Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, NO disable cache
Read offset correction : 120
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track01.wav

Peak level 96.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 7F7E6950
Copy CRC 7F7E6950
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track02.wav

Peak level 92.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC CB5C2084
Copy CRC CB5C2084
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track03.wav

Peak level 81.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2BBB1AEB
Copy CRC 2BBB1AEB
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track04.wav

Peak level 79.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC E5E435E3
Copy CRC E5E435E3
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track05.wav

Peak level 71.6 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 044F4B72
Copy CRC 044F4B72
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track06.wav

Peak level 77.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC C5C514E4
Copy CRC C5C514E4
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track07.wav

Peak level 65.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 31A63169
Copy CRC 31A63169
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track08.wav

Peak level 74.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC D6A750F6
Copy CRC D6A750F6
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track09.wav

Peak level 83.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 9CFB50DC
Copy CRC 9CFB50DC
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track10.wav

Peak level 75.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 8238083C
Copy CRC 8238083C
Copy OK

Track 11
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track11.wav

Peak level 72.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC B06FBC1E
Copy CRC B06FBC1E
Copy OK

Track 12
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track12.wav

Peak level 67.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC CEF2DD11
Copy CRC CEF2DD11
Copy OK

Track 13
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track13.wav

Peak level 82.8 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 64D9BFEC
Copy CRC 64D9BFEC
Copy OK

Track 14
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track14.wav

Peak level 89.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 56189534
Copy CRC 56189534
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

Tubular
2007-07-21, 10:42 AM
If you get no read errors with "overread into lead in and lead out" enabled, then you should probably leave it enabled just to be safe.

Now, if you want, try determining the write offset and burn a write offset corrected audio CD with EAC from a FLAC set on your hard drive (see previous posts for instructions). Then extract this write offset corrected CD and compare it to the FLAC set. All of the WAVs should match, except maybe for the first and last track of the extracted burned CD. You could try extracting with "overread" enabled and disabled and see if those first and last tracks match either way.

Five
2007-07-21, 02:30 PM
if you extract a cd to one folder, then burn that using EAC and extract again from this burned copy to another folder, then you can generate st5 checksums for both sets to see if you've got it 100% perfect. even wholefile md5s will work, if you're more comfortable with that.

for instructions look at the "checksums" link below in my signature. on my system I get a perfect match.

Tubular
2007-07-21, 03:00 PM
If you can't get the first and/or last tracks to match, just edit out a 5 second piece of low level crowd noise from a show you have with CD-Wav editor version 1.72, available here for free:
http://www.etree.org/cdwave.html
Then add this 5 second .wav to the beginning and end of each audio CD that you burn with EAC with the read offset corrected.

Five
2007-07-21, 03:21 PM
^this is going to give an exact copy? :wtf: :hmm:

Tubular
2007-07-21, 03:30 PM
No the original wavs remain untouched. The 5 second clips are just bonus tracks added so you can extract the actual show perfectly.

Five, when you burn a FLAC seed with EAC with write offset corrected that has no SBEs or other errors that is a DAT > soundcard > wav transfer, do all the tracks match? Cause I've never been able to get the last track to match on a seed like this, hence the bonus track.

Five
2007-07-21, 03:50 PM
I set up my system using the guides at the coaster factory

everything is set up for slowest extraction speed/highest quality in the options

my read offset is +98 on my rom drive ... it was determined that this is the ideal drive for reading.

my write drive offset is -6

I tested it with several official cds from my collection, 100% perfect on all tracks.

I'm confident that I can burn an audio cdr sourced from DAT or anything and get the same results... I can test this if you think for some reson it could possibly make a difference in the results. important thing is that there are no SBEs in the WAV files used to burn with EAC.

one key point, in EAC options for extraction I have "fill up missing offset samples with silence" enabled. since pretty much any commercial cd will have at least 98 samples of silence at the beginning and end, maybe I should try testing it with a DAT source as you suggested!! (will get back to you on that...)

Tubular
2007-07-21, 04:09 PM
Here is where is gets complicated. Both examples use the same CD-RW drive:

1)DAT > soundcard > WAV > FLAC (no SBEs) seed > WAV > burn with Nero (can't correct write offset on burn) > extract with EAC with combined read/write offset = all tracks match original FLACs, including first and last tracks

2)DAT > soundcard > WAV > FLAC (no SBEs) seed > WAV > burn with EAC (write offset corrected) > extract with EAC with read offset corrected = all tracks match except last track (has missing samples)

I can only conclude that EAC cannot overwrite into lead out correctly on DAT sources, or something. If you could try it that would be great.

Tubular
2007-07-21, 07:14 PM
OK, scratch the above Nero example, at least with a Lite On SlimtypeDVDRW SSW-8015S. I burned a disc with Nero (no 2 second gaps) with this lineage:

source: DSBD->DAT@<hidden>
transfer: DAP1-> echo MIA-> SF7.0-> CD-Wave-> FLAC

This fileset had no SBEs or other errors.

My drive has a read offset correction of +594 and a write offset correction of -6. So I used a combined read/write offset correction of +588 and extracted the last track of disc 1 and EAC reported missing sample errors in the log file. Then I tried extracting a track from the middle of the disc, combined read/write offset +588, got missing sample errors in the log file. I tried a commercial CD, combined read/write offset +588, got missing sample errors in the log file. Then I tried the commercial CD again, read offset +594 and got no missing sample errors. Then I tried the burned CD again with combined read/write offset +588 with "overread" enabled and got missing sample errors. So using a read offset of anything other than the correct +594 in my drive/ASPI interface/laptop results in missing sample errors.

I remember extracting with the combined read/write offset working fine on an old HL-DT-ST CD-RW drive I had on a different computer though.

Last thing, when you extract a Nero burned CD with the read offset corrected, the missing sample errors won't show up in the log file of EAC, because they aren't read errors. The missing samples will show up when you are using the compare WAVs feature of EAC in Tools > Compare WAVs. I'm not sure what the difference is between these two types of 'missing sample' errors. :hmm:

cicada
2007-07-21, 07:46 PM
if you extract a cd to one folder, then burn that using EAC and extract again from this burned copy to another folder, then you can generate st5 checksums for both sets to see if you've got it 100% perfect. even wholefile md5s will work, if you're more comfortable with that.

for instructions look at the "checksums" link below in my signature. on my system I get a perfect match.
I have determined that my read offset correction is 102. I then used the earlier thread from tubular to determine that I should enter 30 into EAC for my write offset. I tried converting original flacs to wavs and burning to cd. Then extracting those wavs from that cd... I used EAC to compare and they match! The md5's for these wavs are a match, also.

However, when I encode the newly ripped wav to flac (level 8 encoding) the st5's are a match, but the md5's do NOT match the original flac files. Is this because I use flac8 to encode? What would cause this?

Five
2007-07-21, 07:58 PM
cicada, you've got it!

st5 works from the decompressed audio information only, so different flac compression levels, tags, even encoding to shn, ape or reading from wav will all match.

now when comparing flac files using md5 there are many factors that can introduce minor changes that will throw the md5 off such as presence of tags, compression level, and version # of the flac binaries used for the encode. that is the main reason that st5 is much better, because it compares if the decompressed audio only is a match without being sensitive to non-audio things.

Five
2007-07-21, 08:15 PM
Tubular,

wow I am getting a headache thinking about that! we will get to the bottom of it, I've got to research a little.

a couple things that come to mind

I don't think it has anything to do with the dat source, unless you do the identical steps with eg a cassette source and it comes out different. are you getting "no sector boundary errors" using a shntool/tlh len check on the original set? cdwave leaves a SBE on the final track, if that's what you're using (could be a cause, just a shot in the dark)

combined read and write offsets should not be used, they are only useful when all else fails setting them separately. when using combined read and write offsets it is expected that the checksums will be different after extracting a disc, and that the sample slide intentionally introduced here will correct itself when a copy is burned from these files. so what you're experiencing seems strange, also I have to look up my facts on this since I have never used that feature personally...

if you have the two last files that are ever so slightly different I am capable of checking them for you for a) sample slide and amount in # of samples and b) exact difference between them, if that is at all useful here.

...still thinking about this, we should be able to get it sorted

cicada
2007-07-21, 08:26 PM
Cool! Thanks a ton for all your help.

So, I can say that I have performed an exact extraction because I have matching ST5's (even though it I do not have matching MD5's). Technically these are not the orignal lossless filesets, but this is a exact extraction... and that's a first for me! Thanks again to you guys (Tubular and Five).

Tubular
2007-07-21, 11:23 PM
Cicada, I'm glad I was able to help!

Well shit, I just burned the same DAT > soundcard > SF > CD Wav sourced show with EAC .95 beta 4 with the write offset corrected with my Lite On, then extracted with EAC with the read offset corrected and all the tracks I extracted matched. I extracted the first track, a middle track, and the last track and they all match (my audio CD read speeds suck with this drive, so I didn't want to extract all the tracks). Yay! :D Maybe it was my old HD-DT-ST CD-RW drive that couldn't overwrite into the lead out correctly? :hmm: That was probably it. &*@<hidden>$% cheap factory supplied stock drives. :rolleyes: So if your drive can't overwrite into lead in and/or out, then you have to add a short bonus track to the beginning and/or end so all your concert wavs will match on extraction.

I just extracted the last track of an audio CD (didn't add a short bonus track on this one disc) I burned a while ago with the old drive with EAC with the write offset corrected and got DIFFERENT samples at the very end of the track when I compared it with the original FLAC > WAV with EAC's compare WAVs feature. Different samples in the compare WAVs feature as opposed to MISSING samples when you extract a Nero burned disc with EAC with the read offset corrected.

If you extract a CD that has been burned without write offset correction with Nero or EAC, then extract with EAC with the combined read/write offset, then all your files will match the original FLAC set. So if you have burned a bunch of audio CDs with Nero (not normalized, no 2 second gaps) but you deleted the FLAC sets, then you can still get the original files back by extracting with with EAC with the combined read/write offset (assuming no SBEs on original FLAC set).

Tubular
2007-07-22, 03:17 AM
If you snip off the very last part of the last wav of a set with CD-Wave Editor you won't get a SBE.

I think it was anything that was transferred through a soundcard, data port, or external AD converter: DAT, cassette, MiniDisc, vinyl, reels, hard disk recorder, flash recorder, 8 track :lol:, DCC (remember those?) :lol: All of these types of transfers would give me problems matching the last track of original filesets with no SBEs on extracting a burned disc with the HL-DT-STRW/DVD GCC-4240N CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive.

But if the transfer was: drive capable of overwriting into lead out > burn audio CD > EAC > WAV > FLAC then there would be no problems matching the last track on extraction on my burned disc, even though my drive can't overwrite on lead out correctly. :hmm: I'm clueless as to why this is. Sounds crazy, but it happened. :idea: Maybe the source audio CD for the FLAC seed wasn't burned with the write offset corrected and/or wasn't extracted with the read offset corrected, and then when I burn with EAC with the write offset corrected on a drive that can't overwrite into lead out, it burns the silence at the end correctly even though it can't overwrite into lead out? Does that make any sense? :lol

Anyway, it doesn't matter now that I have a drive that can overwrite into lead out correctly on every show.

cicada
2007-07-22, 04:01 AM
You got me there? I'll let you and Five take it from here. I will continue to rely on the orignal filesets (external HD and datadiscs backup for now). Nice to finally have EAC set up correctly even though the cheapy drive has limits.

All from me for now... peace!

Tubular
2007-07-22, 12:06 PM
I alone didn't get you there. Five helped, I helped, and you helped yourself. ;)

Yeah it would be good to still archive the FLACs and SHNs on data DVD+Rs as a backup. What if the audio CD-Rs are lost or borrowed and never returned? Plus data discs have built in error correction so they will copy more reliably as time goes by.

Tubular
2007-07-22, 10:51 PM
Sorry, just realized what you meant by 'you got me there'; that I stumped you. Haven't heard that expression in a while.