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newtdecay
2007-07-04, 05:31 AM
i'm buying a new video camera specificially to video shows. here at the models i am looking at.

#1 (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926INGFS10087142&catid=20048&PCName=camcorder%5FCanon&logon=&langid=EN) - Good/Bad? This is lossless or no?

#2 (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926INGFS10084697&catid=20046&PCName=camcorder%5FCanon&logon=&langid=EN) - Good/Bad? Does it go straight to DVD? How hard is the transferring process?

I have a $600 budget. If #1 is lossless, I am willing to go over my budget to replace my digital camera as well. I want something that will produce something GOOD. I don't think I can afford something that will produce something AMAZING.

I hope for some help. :)

Audioarchivist
2007-07-04, 06:30 AM
I'm no video cam expert, but #1 is a hybrid still camera that takes up to 14 minute video shots, not good for taping shows (unless they're VERY short shows!
#2 records on MiniDV tapes, not to DVD... MiniDV is pretty good, tapes are 1 hour usually, and transfers to computer thru firewire usually, seems easy and good, I think...

diggrd
2007-07-04, 10:56 AM
Though they are no longer made you see a lot of shows done with the Sony PC100 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-DCR-PC100-MiniDV-Digital-Camcorder-PC100-W-ACCESSO_W0QQitemZ120135647173QQihZ002QQcategoryZ20333QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

saltman
2007-07-04, 01:01 PM
I would say no go on the first two. esp. the first one. I would go with diggrd's link.

AAR.oner
2007-07-04, 01:04 PM
stay away from the first fer sure...as far as the second option - personally, i'm not a fan of Canon's consumer products in live concert situations due to poor low-light performance...on the whole, Sony cams typically perform better [again, i generalizing here]

as mentioned ^^, the Sony DCR-PC100 is a great cam that a lot of video tapers use...the newer version, the Sony DCR-PC1000, is what we usually shoot shows with...excellent cam if you don't need an external audio input [i run a separate audio rig so that doesn't really matter to me]...the in-cam mic is shite, but i pretty much feel that way about all in-cam mics, so...

as for pricing - bought my PC1000 brand new about a year ago, price was ~$700[US]...and you should be able to find a PC100 in good condition on ebay for under $400 no problem...i would go with one of those 2 cams if it were me


heres camcorderinfo's review on the PC1000:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-DCR-PC1000-Camcorder-Review.htm

and their review on the Canon ZR850 [which is a step up from the ZR800 you mentioned above]:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-ZR850-Camcorder-Review/Performance.htm

AAR.oner
2007-07-04, 01:20 PM
here's a decent example of the typical PC100s i've seen on ebay lately
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190127371765&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX&refitem=120135647173&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget

things to keep an eye out for [either extras or missing items] -- ** items are necessities imo:
**A/C power supply
**remote control
**extra batteries [the auction linked below includes 3 NP-FM50s, totaling approx 6-8 hrs of shooting time]
**manuals
UV/wide angle/telephoto lenses or filters
lens hood

and btw, i'm not spamming for this auction ;) just figured its a good example of a typical "package deal"

eattherich
2007-07-08, 12:42 AM
I actually think some Canon mini dv's perform better in low light than some Sony's, but like AAR said, it's all generalization. Just an opinion...

And unless you use a tripod, Sony's image stabilization (i'm only talking consumer level here) sucks when zooming.

But hey- for your budget, either Sony or Canon will perform admirably. Just STAY AWAY from JVC. I've had that many probs with that brand it aint funny

Mr. Magoo
2007-07-08, 06:00 AM
Thought I might mention I recently saw a JVC with a 30GB HD for $499. I have never used a camera with a hard drive, but I am looking at going that route for myself. To me the best selling point is that I do need to change tapes and splice/merge them later.

Link: JVC 30 GB Hard Drive Camera (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8219643&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat91400050051&id=1166236107365)

AAR.oner
2007-07-08, 09:04 AM
Thought I might mention I recently saw a JVC with a 30GB HD for $499. I have never used a camera with a hard drive, but I am looking at going that route for myself. To me the best selling point is that I do need to change tapes and splice/merge them later.

Link: JVC 30 GB Hard Drive Camera (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8219643&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat91400050051&id=1166236107365)

here's camcorderinfo's review on that JVC model:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/JVC-GZ-MG130-Camcorder-Review.htm


one thing to keep in mind, pretty much any consumer-level hard drive cam isn't going to capture in raw .avi or .dv, but will compress your footage to mpeg2 on-the-fly...and that comes with glitches/issues, including the fact that alot of NLE progs won't accept mpeg2 files for editing, and you will have to convert to avi or similar, do your edit, and then re-compress once your project is completed -- double compression = quality loss

i'm not saying no one should buy a hard drive cam, just think about all the angles first...and really check out camcorderinfo.com when comparing -- the reviews aren't by random consumers, but pofessionals who *really* test out and know about the features

eattherich
2007-07-08, 09:36 AM
Definitely...I've never purchased a cam without reading the review at camcorderinfo.com first. They're really thorough.

AAR.oner
2007-07-08, 10:34 AM
Definitely...I've never purchased a cam without reading the review at camcorderinfo.com first. They're really thorough.
you mentioned a few Canon cams that performed great in low-light...i'd be interested to know the models...we're trying to compile a small guide to cams specific for live show taping, and the only canon's i've perosnally used were the GL2 and XL1/XL2...would like to know more re: some of their consumer cams :wave:

fanofthemule
2007-07-08, 11:52 AM
I've seen the Panasonic PV-GS320 on sale for $470. It's a small 3 chip camera that will give you excellent results when filming concerts.

diggrd
2007-07-08, 09:12 PM
I would stay away from the JVC. I own the first generation Everio and although that newer model has some improvements it does have some of the same flaws as well. Low light performance is not good, the fact that they went to 30 GB HD and still didn't offer the option to save raw instead of compressed video seems like they were only thinking home vidcam consumer.About the only plus is the size and that flip out view finder is not a plus in that department mine looks like this and more often than not when I'm stealthing there is a dark 35 mm transparency flipped down over the viewfinder to block the display.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/images/upload/JVC-GZ-MC200_back.jpg

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/JVC-GZ-MC200-Camcorder-Review.htm

Mr. Magoo
2007-07-09, 01:58 PM
Does anyone have a recommendation for hard disk camera that does not convert on the fly?

saltman
2007-07-09, 02:13 PM
I could be wrong.... but I think the only ones that don't convert would be ones that could accept a firestore HDD. or the equivalent. I don't think they make ones that store on their own HDD and don't compress. Which is why HDD cameras are not that good. You can't do multicam videos without rendering rendered files.

Mr. Magoo
2007-07-09, 03:06 PM
So am I to assume we are still left with changing tapes and splicing later during the editing process?

I know this is a loaded question, but what is a good inexpensive camera to use these days. I currently still have my old digital Hi8. I have always had my eye on the GL2. Any thoughts about that one AAR.oner? I found one "new" for $599.

Sorry, I have been away from video taping for quite a while.

saltman
2007-07-09, 03:09 PM
GL2 is an excellent camera. it's kinda dated but it's till an amazing 3 chip camera. Its weakness is going to be low light performance compared to more modern cameras. That's a good price. I don't think I've seen them less than a grand.

Mr. Magoo
2007-07-09, 03:13 PM
Heres the link: GL2 (http://www.usaphotonation.com/products.asp?product_id=10010&engine=everyprice)

AAR.oner
2007-07-09, 06:25 PM
wow, thats ridiculously cheap! i remember when we paid just under $2000 for one and thought we were gettin a good deal

i've used the GL2 regularly a few years back, not so much for live shows due to the low light issue Salt mentioned, but for documentary/digicam work...great for what it is, but no interchangable lens system, which for me is a :down:

if yer mainly gonna be using the cam for shows, and you don't have $5000+ to spend -- the Sony DCR-PC1000 is the only way to go imo

i mentioned buying a new "small cam" last year & some of the phish taper kids around here kept touting its predecessor [the PC100] and said i should check out the PC1000...they were right!

excellent image quality & low light performance, Carl Zeiss lens, you can change tapes without taking the cam off the tripod, and its real small -- hell, the head on my tripod is bigger than the cam if that tells ya anyting ;)

KustMichaels
2007-07-10, 08:03 AM
camcorderinfo claim the HV20 for best low light performance in it's category. the Sony top consumer camcorder HC7E holds up, but not quite. the Canon HV10 produces good video for it's size, but low light is not that good and rumor has it the HV10 pushes colors a little into bright blue.

head over to fxsupport.de, chose the (babelfish) english language and compare the test footage of mutliple Sony, Canon and JVC cams.

you mentioned a few Canon cams that performed great in low-light...i'd be interested to know the models...we're trying to compile a small guide to cams specific for live show taping, and the only canon's i've perosnally used were the GL2 and XL1/XL2...would like to know more re: some of their consumer cams :wave:

newtdecay
2007-07-12, 12:11 AM
Thanks everyone for the links & explanations. I currently don't buy online, but have been searching some of the shops in Toronto for the sony on AAA.oner suggested.

Looked at a JVC one today because it was so small - but decided after reading thru against it.







Another question:

I should be buying next Tuesday. Since I am looking to film indoor shows - what questions should I ask when buying? I will most likely purchase from Best Buy or Futureshop.

Mr. Magoo
2007-07-12, 06:14 AM
I would ask the sales person some or all of the following:

1. What is the expected run time of the battery w/ or w/o the use of the LCD screeen?
2. What is the cost for an extra battery?
3. What accessories come with the camera?
4. Do the camera have and external mic input?
5. What is the cameras LUX rating (lower the better, if I remember correctly)?
6. Does the camera transfer USB or Firewire?
7. Does it come with the needed cable?
8. Does the camera have image stabiliazation?

That's what popped into my head right of. Hope that helps.

Magoo

diggrd
2007-07-12, 06:14 PM
Don't know about Futureshop but in a BestBuy around me if you find anyone who can answer more than 1/2 those questions you're talking to the right person.

ingram
2007-07-13, 07:49 AM
check panasonic ng-gv 75
i'm filming with it and it's pretty cool

newtdecay
2007-08-30, 03:31 PM
Thanks everyone!

I got a Sony-HC28. I ended up knowning the girl, and she gave me a discount on the chord/warranty, so that was pretty cool. Everybody likes to save money.

So, where do you hide it when you bring it into the club? Most places around here, don't check, but for ones that do?

Rags847
2007-08-30, 03:46 PM
Sony's rock!
A great Carl lens and color reproduction.
MiniDV is the way to go. Higher screen resolution.
I used to own their 10X zoom in 2000.
Now they have a 25X for $350 at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-DCR-HC48-Handycam-Camcorder-Included/dp/B000M3IM00/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/104-8260115-8188738?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1187004115&sr=1-3
I did a lot of research before buying it.
It will outperform most $600 models.

I did this show in 2001 w/ their 10X zoom.
http://www.acdc-videos.com/acdc-videos-bootlegs.php?year=2001&sid=1709&angle=202&iid=2641

Rags

Rags847
2007-08-30, 03:48 PM
Hide it down your pants.
If they do a pat-down, hope they don't go too high up the leg.
I used to hide it in a shoulder bag, but since 9/11 big arenas don't let bags in.

Rags