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View Full Version : Audio cd-rs with Data stored on them


bigchuck
2005-01-28, 06:12 PM
Okay, so here is my problem: I was sent a bunch of flac and shn shows in a trade, however, they seem to have been burned on audio cd-rs.

Everytime I put them in my drive and try to open them I get the message: Windows cannot read from this disk. The disk might be corrupted, or it could be using a format that is not compatible with Windows.

So, is there any way that I can get these files off the discs? Or am I going to need to get the trader to resend the shows?

wazoo2u
2005-01-28, 06:53 PM
Audio CDR's and Computer CDR's are identical, except the Audio CDR's have a flag embedded in them which tells "standalone" CDR Recorders that the media has had a license fee paid.

If you can see the data files in Explorer, but can't transfer or open them, then your problem isn't the TYPE of media, but some other incompatibility or corruption.

There are some programs (CD Roller comes to mind) that will recover data from "unreadable" discs, but it might just be easier to send the trader some media from your own stock that you know will work in your CD reader. If THOSE come back bad, I'd find someone else to trade with.

Five
2005-01-28, 06:53 PM
:confused:

is it possible that they're DVD-R?

you traded flac and shn, I think it's reasonable to expect to get data files traded back. If the guy knows what flac and shn is he should also know that you don't want audio cdrs.

bigchuck
2005-01-28, 07:11 PM
They're defenitely not DVD-Rs. I can't even open them in explorer, I just get that message. They're TDK audio cds. A couple of them were normal maxel cd-rs and they worked fine, so I thought it might be the audio disc thing. I guess if thats not the problem then I need to try one of the options wazoo2u suggested.

If anyone else knows anything that might cause this, your help is appreciated. Thanks!

wazoo2u
2005-01-28, 07:18 PM
What kind of drive are you trying to use to open these with ?? Just curious, maybe it doesn't like this media for some reason... could happen..

I'd check the media compatibility list for your drive at the manu. website.

It's hard to believe that it's a read problem at your end tho... audio cdr's were designed to work with either computer or standalone drives, they just tacked on an extra 50 cents per disk for the license revenue, so nobody bought them to use as computer disks.

My guess is going in the direction that the BURN process was faulty.

bigchuck
2005-01-28, 07:24 PM
I'm begining to suspect that, too...I need to try out all the discs realy quick. However, I just found it odd that the maxell cd-rs work. I tried reading it in both of my drives, each of which have had no problem with TDK. I have a lite-on dvd-rw drive, and a cd-rw that came with my dell(don't know what brand).

Also, some are in audio and those work fine.

This is quite perplexing...

Five
2005-01-28, 07:55 PM
indeed.

try them on a friend's computer first then contact the trader if they still don't work.

Rider
2005-01-29, 02:35 AM
Also try updating the firmware on your drive.

Gizby
2005-01-29, 03:03 AM
Audio CDR's and Computer CDR's are identical, except the Audio CDR's have a flag embedded in them which tells "standalone" CDR Recorders that the media has had a license fee paid.

If you can see the data files in Explorer, but can't transfer or open them, then your problem isn't the TYPE of media, but some other incompatibility or corruption.

There are some programs (CD Roller comes to mind) that will recover data from "unreadable" discs, but it might just be easier to send the trader some media from your own stock that you know will work in your CD reader. If THOSE come back bad, I'd find someone else to trade with.

Thanks for the CD Roller recommendation. I was able to save some shows from a DVDR that I've had for awhile now. Didn't think I was ever going to save them. And as a reward, I have a couple of Blue Floyd shows that I will seed shortly.

RainDawg
2005-01-31, 08:41 AM
Audio CDR's and Computer CDR's are identical, except the Audio CDR's have a flag embedded in them which tells "standalone" CDR Recorders that the media has had a license fee paid.
This is not entirely true. Data CDs have extra error-checking bits contained in the data, making data discs more reliable to retrieve data from than audio CDs.

It would not be possible to burn an audio CD from non-audio data, so I doubt this is the problem. My guess would be that the disc is corrupted, either from being scratched or (most likely) being burned incorrectly. I'd ask the trader for another copy.

Rider
2005-01-31, 01:08 PM
This is not entirely true. Data CDs have extra error-checking bits contained in the data, making data discs more reliable to retrieve data from than audio CDs.

It would not be possible to burn an audio CD from non-audio data, so I doubt this is the problem. My guess would be that the disc is corrupted, either from being scratched or (most likely) being burned incorrectly. I'd ask the trader for another copy.

He's talking about what the discs are made out of not how the data is written.

uhclem
2005-01-31, 09:04 PM
Is it possible that his CD reader is reading the licensing bit and concluding that the CD is formatted as an audio CD?

wazoo2u
2005-01-31, 10:41 PM
He's talking about what the discs are made out of not how the data is written.
Correct. NOT talking about CRC vs. Reed-Solomon.

bfrank
2005-02-06, 03:27 PM
indeed.

try them on a friend's computer first then contact the trader if they still don't work.ya your write Five

Wedge1
2005-07-12, 01:15 AM
Hi guys,

I googled "the disk might be corrupted, or it could be using a format that is not compatible with windows" and found this thread.

I get the message with a DVD ROM that I moved from an old Compaq 5832 Presario to a home-built PC. The old PC had and OEM install of Windows 98 (included in the restore discs) while the new build has XP Home. It doesn't matter what I insert in the DVD ROM. It reads nothing. Doesn't spin or anything. I just simply get that error message. Actually the entire message reads:

Windows cannot read from this disk. The disk might be corrupted, or it could be using a format that is not compatible with windows

Although the label on the DVD-ROM is "Compaq", research shows that it's actually a 6x Pioneer 113R.

Can any of you give me guidance on where to start with this problem?

Five
2005-07-12, 01:49 AM
does it still work on yer old comp?

is it possible for you to test it on a friend's comp?

Wedge1
2005-07-12, 02:13 AM
I'm not sure if it still works on the old PC with the original OS (Win98 SE), but I know for sure that it doesn't work on the old PC with Windows XP Home because I tried it with XP on the PC that originally housed the drive and got the same error message.

So, to me, it seems to be a thing where it works with the original software that came preinstalled at the factory, which included Windows 98SE and a proprietary DVD playing software (i can't remember the name of it off-hand).

Five
2005-07-12, 02:37 AM
well the next thing to do is carry it around with you and try it on anybody's computer you can to see if you can get the data off it and burn it to a new DVDR.

hoefully we'll get some more posts here from other members...

Ted
2005-07-12, 07:00 AM
It doesn't matter what I insert in the DVD ROM. It reads nothing. Doesn't spin or anything.Windows is good for giving generic error messages. Microsoft thinks we're all dummies. You say it doesn't spin. that means it's not getting power or a signal to make it spin up. Try reseating the IDE cable and the power cable, but before you re-insert the IDE, make sure there are no bent/missing pins on the drive. You'll see what looks like a missing pin in the middle in one row, but that's supposed to be like that. Any other missing pins would indicate one has broken off. I've seen pins bent/broken when people get careless and fumble with the connector until it connects. You have to watch what you're doing carefully (not that you didin't ;)).

After checking the hardware, check the software - namely the drivers. Did you install the correct drivers for that drive? Since it works with the original 98 and not XP on the old computer, and also not on the new computer, I'd say the wrong/missing drivers are the culprit. XP is good at having a lot of drivers or universal drivers already available, but it can't/doesn't have them all. You should be able to get the drivers from your original 98 CD that came with the computer. If not, I'm sure they can be found online. Let me know if you need to find them and I'll see what I can do.

AAR.oner
2005-07-12, 08:19 AM
could be a corrupt disk...could be firmware...could be well alot of things...

try updating yer firmware first and see if that helps. if not post back

4candles
2005-07-12, 08:58 AM
The CD-Recordable FAQ (http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-17) has the following to say about data/music blanks:


"Consumer" stand-alone audio CD recorders require special blanks. See section (5-12) for details. There is no difference in quality or composition between "data" blanks and "music" blanks, except for a flag that indicates which one it is. It's likely that "music" blanks are optimized for recording at 1x, since anything you record "live" is by definition recorded at 1x (though some dual-drive systems allow track copying at higher speeds).

You don't have to use "music" blanks to record music on a computer or on a "professional" stand-alone audio CD recorder. Nothing will prevent you from doing so, but there's no advantage to it.

The "music" blanks are more expensive than the "data" blanks because a portion of the price goes to the music industry. The specifics vary from country to country. In the USA, the money goes to the RIAA, which distributes it to artists who have navigated through a complicated application process.

Some manufacturers have on occasion marked low-quality data discs as being "for music", on the assumption that small errors will go unnoticed. Make sure that, if you need the special blanks, you're getting the right thing.

(Technically, there are actually three kinds of blanks: type 1a for CD-ROM or professional audio recording, type 1b for special-purpose applications like PhotoCD, and type 2 for unrestricted use. "Music" blanks are type 2, "data" blanks are type 1a.)

Some disc manufacturers label "music" blanks as "universal use", since they will work on anything.


So according to that description, it's possible that the problem is due to lower quality blanks, or blanks optimised for single speed writing that were written to at a higher speed.

If it was me, I would try the CDs in two or three different drives and if none of them work, contact the person who sent them to me and ask him/her to resend on different media. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter why the discs don't work, just the fact that they don't.

Wedge1
2005-07-13, 01:36 PM
Thanks guys. I'll check the pins to see if any are bent or missing, but there is no need to try the drive in another PC because this makes PC #3 where the behavior and error message are identical. Also, keep in mind that I have no DVD burner, this is a DVD ROM only, and it is not reading anything - CDs, DVDs, CDRWs. No spin-up whatsoever. The drive is getting power though (the tray opens and closes). Also, I can't find the drivers for this thing on the original factory discs that contain Win98.



could be a corrupt disk...could be firmware...could be well alot of things...

try updating yer firmware first and see if that helps. if not post back

I'm thinking this will be the next thing to try after checking the pins, but I have never flashed an old drive before, so i may need some guidance here.

I'm checking PioneerDVD Firmware (http://pioneerdvd.rpc1.org/#PIONEER_IDE) right now and I see 113, 113S, and 113SZ, but no 113R.

Ted
2005-07-13, 06:35 PM
http://www.driverguide.com/
(Can be useful for finding hard to find drivers.)

The drivers have to be on the disc somewhere. Try going into the properties of the drive and either update drivers or install them from CD (and instert your old disc that should have them on it). If it's a Win98 disc, they won't be on there. You should have a "Restore" or "Recover" disc, unless is incorporated into the restore disc.

Let me know the exact name/model of your drive and I'll see if I can find the drivers (PM so I get it. I may miss this thread).

Ted
2005-07-16, 10:35 AM
Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

A few things to try:

1) Are you sure you set the master/slave jumper correctly? Don't use CS (cable select), force either master or slave, depending on where it's located on the IDE.
2) Your drive problems may be related to SP2. I hate to have you uninstall it to see because you may end up having to reinstall Windows. Try it as a last resort.
3) I read somewhere that Pioneer drives sometimes don't like to be on the same IDE cable as other optical drives. Try putting it on a cable of it's own. If you don't have the space, temporarily remove whatever is on the secondary IDE to see if the drive will read the disc.

Driver downloads from Pioneer (http://www.pioneerusa.com/pna/article/0,,2076_4273_128760825,00.html)

Try downloading the driver for 113. It's supposed to be for Win98, but I've seen drivers for Win98 work on XP before. You have nothing to lose.

I hesitate to advise installing any firmware for your drive because it is hard to find any firmware that is specifically made for your drive, that is, the 113"r". If the new firmware doesn't work, you may be screwed. Try updating firmware after you've tried uninstalling XP2 and before you're prepared to buy another DVD drive. DVD ROM drives are fairly inexpensive and it wouldn't hurt to consider buying a newer drive, if that's at all an option - as a very last resort, of course.

Sorry, but that's about all the help I can be. I wish I had something more definite for you.