Ripping from CD(R)

[jerry1970]

Has anyone ever tested / proven whether ripping software is better than copying WAV files directly from a CDR? And when copying, does it matter which OS (Windows, Linux, MacOS) you're using?

In its most simplistic form, WAV files are 0s and 1s and copying them from CD(R) to hard drive will give the same array of 0s and 1s. I can only assume ripping software will interpret the music and convert something but I don't have the technical knowledge. In case of errors, I guess ripping software will attempt recovery, where copying files will just give an error?

Any info is much appreciated.

Thanks!

[Five]

use EAC http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/

os don't matter.

you can't "just copy" from a cdr

hope this helps

[jerry1970]

I am on Ubuntu and when I open the file manager and click the CD, I see a list of WAV files. When I copy them to hard disk I have the WAV files on my hard disk and can edit them.

[GRC]

If you have WAV files on the disc, it's not a "Red Book" CD. It's a DATA disc.

A simple file copy of WAV files from disc to PC using the Operating System Copy/Paste just copies the ones and zeros and leaves you with duplicate files. This is not "ripping" a CD.

A Red Book CD does not have WAV files upon it, so the ripping software is needed to convert the data stream on the CD, which does not correspond directly to a PC file format, into a file of some type. It's a conversion process, not a file copy.

[jerry1970]

OK, good to know.

So then there is some conversion layer present that the file manager reads because when I insert any Red Book CD in the player it shows up as WAV files. So copying in the file manager is just another way of ripping the audio.

Must find out what that is then.

Interesting to compare files on bit level between different ways of ripping.

[Five]

use cdparanoia libraries can you not search google? pls respond.

hope this helps

[Five]

also I have never used the windows ripper, in the past you couldn't extract using windows but rather there is something called a cd ripper. you you list the ones you've found a tried, with version numbers? is there a secure option? does EAC work for you?

[GRC]

OK, good to know.

So then there is some conversion layer present that the file manager reads because when I insert any Red Book CD in the player it shows up as WAV files. So copying in the file manager is just another way of ripping the audio.


File Manager in ... which Op Sys?

What kind of player?

I'm on Win XP, and when I insert a redbook CD and Explore with Windows File Explorer, it shows a list of .cda files, one for each track, each of 1kB exactly.

My partner's Win 10 machine shows exactly the same.

[jerry1970]

File Manager in ... which Op Sys?
What kind of player?
I'm on Win XP, and when I insert a redbook CD and Explore with Windows File Explorer, it shows a list of .cda files, one for each track, each of 1kB exactly.


When I used Windows I had the same this, only .cda files of 1 Kb.

I am on Xubuntu 18.04, file manager is Thunar.

The attached screenshots shows file the manager on a regular CD (not a CDR) and the files copied to hard disc, both with the properties of the first file, and the dialog when copying.

[jerry1970]

Interesting, when I used the Asunder ripper to rip the same CD, I got a WAV file for the first track that was 70 bytes shorter (247,7 MB (247.656.236 bytes)) than when copying (247,7 MB (247.656.306 bytes)).

Both show the same sample encoding (16-bit Signed Integer PCM) and the same time/samples/sectors (using Soxi):
00:23:23.95 = 61914048 samples = 105296 CDDA sectors

All files are exactly 70 bytes shorter when using Asunder than when using Thunar.

[GRC]

I <think> that app has something in it which is basically saying "If you copy this, I'm going to store it as a WAV" as opposed to saying "There's a WAV on the disc" ....

[jerry1970]

Extra info... When copying using Thunar, there is an extra header added called RIFF INFO:

header: RIFF INFO
name: Encoder Settings
value: gvfs-cdda using libcdio 1.0.0 x86_64-pc-linux-gnu

That could account for the 70 extra bytes.

When I remove the header (using Kid3, a music tag editor), the 70 bytes are removed and the files are exactly the same size. Even the MD5sum of both files are now the same.

So, Thunar copy results in exactly the same music info as using Asunder.
Good to know. :)

[jerry1970]

I <think> that app has something in it which is basically saying "If you copy this, I'm going to store it as a WAV" as opposed to saying "There's a WAV on the disc" ....

Yes, that's a better way to describe it. I am glad it works well - proved it with comparing the results to Asunder. :)

[Five]

the RIFF files are removed when converted to FLAC, so it is not a problem. are you storing them as wav for some reason? what is the purpose?

thx

hope I can help

[Five]

also, are there not .cda files any more? sorry I've been out of the loop for a while

[jerry1970]

the RIFF files are removed when converted to FLAC, so it is not a problem. are you storing them as wav for some reason? what is the purpose?

thx

hope I can help

No, WAV is only when I intend to edit the files. I received a bunch of CDRs from someone to work on, his own recordings from DAT and MD from the 1990s and 2000s. (I used to be a purist ("as close to the original recording as possible") but I moved on to "best listenable" so I apply amplification, normalisation, and EQ when necessary to make a recording worth listening to over and over again.) When he's making a new transfer he's sending me the WAV directly, but there's still that bunch of CDRs.


also, are there not .cda files any more? sorry I've been out of the loop for a while


Thunar (an Ubuntu file manager) does not show .cda files and does not copy anything like that. I think the .cda files are something that Windows does when trying to read a Red Book CD format.

Thanks for the help and explanation. I learnt some stuff here. :)

[Muleman1994]

I use NERO Burning ROM.
It is easy to save the audio from a CD in many formats and put the files where you want them.

[Five]

well first of all you need to check is there a better available source.. burned cdrs rarely are the best available source these days. you shouldn't bother ripping those unless you research, it pollutes the trading pool.

for example date and name of band? 99% its already out there, and you can save a lot of time.

also do you know about burned-in TAO gaps and SBEs? you should look for those as well

you need wav editor for that..

so its a big hassle for nothing unless you have a 1/1,000,000 cdr. document each band and date, resarch on google, etree, archive etc etc

tell me if there's anything you don't understand. hope this helps.

[Five]

also, check search function this has been covered many times in long threads. :D

[jerry1970]

I use NERO Burning ROM.
It is easy to save the audio from a CD in many formats and put the files where you want them.

That's probably Windows only. And hitting Super+F (Win+F) for Thunar file manager and drag the WAV files into a folder is quicker for me. ;)

[jerry1970]

well first of all you need to check is there a better available source.. burned cdrs rarely are the best available source these days. you shouldn't bother ripping those unless you research, it pollutes the trading pool.

for example date and name of band? 99% its already out there, and you can save a lot of time.

also do you know about burned-in TAO gaps and SBEs? you should look for those as well

you need wav editor for that..

so its a big hassle for nothing unless you have a 1/1,000,000 cdr. document each band and date, resarch on google, etree, archive etc etc

tell me if there's anything you don't understand. hope this helps.

I always check if there is a different or better source. Most of the CDRs were never traded, some older shows that came from tape I have myself on tape or in digital form. I don't bother if the quality is lower than what I have! Ripping and editing takes a lot of time, I try and prevent doing that whenever I can.

I will have to look into "burned-in TAO gaps" and "SBEs", will do that, thanks. Not sure if someone can do that by accident. The CDRs I have were burnt directly after transfer to hard disk, only track indices added.

[Five]

yes but please tell date and lineage of the burned cdr of which you speak HAL 2000