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View Full Version : It might be time to revisit Hot Tuna NAB status


arfarf
2013-08-21, 02:21 AM
As of just a few hours ago, Planet Rock removed Hot Tuna and Jorma Kaukonen shows from their NAB list. They say this change in policy is due to that neither the Hot Tuna or Jorma Kaukonen official websites publicly post an anti-electronic sharing policy anymore. I've been expecting this to happen since they abandoned their own "Tunatunes" electronic distribution and just send everything over to iTunes now.

It may be time to take a fresh look at their NAB status at TTD, although I would fully understand any decision not to change policy.

direwolf-pgh
2013-08-21, 03:47 PM
from Jorma's wife many moons ago (I guess Everyday Jones tried this idea)

Subject: Hot Tuna Taping Policy
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 07:22:52 -0500
From: Vanessa Kaukonen <fpman@<hidden>>


Hot Tuna Taping Policy

Hot Tuna/Jorma Kaukonen/Jorma Trio/Blue Country/Jorma & Michael/Jorma &
Barry/(etc.) have NEVER given permission to the taping/trading community to post live show recordings as files for electronic download'. Traditional copying of cassettes, DATs, CDRs (wav, shn, mp3), and mailing among fans are OK, as most of the people sending and receiving are known, and the distribution is somewhat limited due to the manual process. However, posting a show on a FTP site, music file sharing server, or on bit-torrent schemes, allows mass distribution to unknown and uncontrolled numbers of recipients. The band's management is NOT OK with this type of distribution unless specific authorization has been requested and given. For example:

- a radio station posts an in-studio interview and performance on their
- website for download - it is only done with approval from the band's management.

The band IS 'Taper Friendly' > AUD taping is always OK and encouraged (except in cases where the venue or contract absolutely prohibits). SBD patches are not given - the SBD recording belongs to the band.

The band IS 'Trade Friendly' > Traditional copying, trading, mailing OK.
Posting the files on servers for any means of electronic download is NOT OK.

If those simple rules cannot be followed, the band may choose to become 'Non-Taper Friendly' and 'Non-Trade Friendly'.


A little fat for Jason Green to chew on.....

I copied and pasted off the Philzone

http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=22563

paddington
2013-08-21, 04:15 PM
since we can freely post opinions on the internet, I will say that I don't think most of these over-restrictive types are a big enough deal to be so picky and restrictive about how audience recordings are distributed by people who appreciate their music, Jorma K included.
You'd think the guy would be old enough by now to not care whether 18 people get copies of an audio cassette or 1800 got copies of something digital they can actually listen to.
Soon, there will be no physical media. How will these anti-digital swapping guys feel then?

Assuming monetary income from audience recordings has very little potential, I'd think these guys would be happy for their music to be spread far and wide.


Of course, we will respect their wishes, always, since what we think doesn't really matter to them and doesn't have to.
That policy is recently posted / reiterated, so I believe it needs to stand.

schmoe75
2013-08-21, 07:10 PM
That policy is recently posted / reiterated.
You think nearly 10 years ago is recent?

Whatever, fuck him, and anyone else who doesn't get todays world. Guess you can always watch 1 of the thousands of shitty iphone videos with horrible sound on utube to gain exposure or attempt to enjoy the music :rolleyes:

http://jormakaukonen.com/tour.php
•Jorma Kaukonen does not allow audio / video recording of any of his shows by the audience or the front of house engineer. Front of house engineers are not permitted to record the show unless authorized by Jorma Kaukonen management. If authorized, then recording in whatever format is property of Jorma Kaukonen and no copy will be made or retained by front of house engineer, the venue, the promoter or anybody else affiliated with the Jorma Kaukonen engagement.
•Jorma Kaukonen archives and records his own performance for his own usage with no fee to the venue or promoter.
•Jorma Kaukonen does not allow flash photography at the shows. Professional cameras are not allowed in the venue unless the persons has valid press credentials or are ok’d prior to the performance by Jorma Kaukonen’s Management at least 48 hours prior to the show. Only the first three songs may be photographed.
•Promoter / venue will stop audio / video taping, flash photographers as well as people walking up to the front of the stage and take photos with their phone. <<<what a fucking asshole

aikowolf
2013-08-21, 08:53 PM
You think nearly 10 years ago is recent?

:

:lol4:

direwolf-pgh
2013-08-21, 08:58 PM
personally, I believe the 'no electronic trade/snail mail only' is unrealistic for any artist at this point in time. either allow the fans to partake or don't.

paddington
2013-08-22, 12:21 AM
That policy is recently posted / reiterated.
You think nearly 10 years ago is recent?

Whatever, fuck him,

You think nearly 10 years ago is recent?

:

:lol4:


I was talking about this, from a few days ago, which is pretty much unchanged:

http://jormakaukonen.com/tour.php

paddington
2013-08-22, 12:21 AM
personally, I believe the 'no electronic trade/snail mail only' is unrealistic for any artist at this point in time. either allow the fans to partake or don't.


yes

just like Jorma doesn't actually get checks, we don't actually listen to tapes or CDs.

arfarf
2013-08-22, 01:16 AM
I was talking about this, from a few days ago, which is pretty much unchanged:

http://jormakaukonen.com/tour.php

There is nothing on the page you, and schmoe, linked to that seems pertinent to this discussion about Hot Tuna / Jorma's NAB status. It does spell out his anti-taping stance, and would seem to contradict the "taper friendly" portion of the message from Vanessa Kaukonen posted by direwolf-pgh in the second post of this thread. Perhaps you can illuminate me to what exactly was, in your words, recently reiterated about the anti-electronic sharing policy?

And how does this vary from the trading here of Todd Rundgren or Peter Rowan? They both had anti-electronic trading statements on their respective websites at one time, and both have stopped posting those policies, but neither have publicly stated a change in policy. If no longer posting an anti-electronic trading policy, without publicly announcing a change to that policy is reason enough to remove Rundgren and Rowan from the NAB list, why not Tuna?

All that being said, I realize "the decision of the judges is final". Thanks for hearing me out.

Late thought: The message you linked to and schmoe copied and pasted, has not changed in at least 2 years, it's just part of the "boilerplate" or "template" of the page they list upcoming tour dates, the tour dates were updated August 15th, but Jorma's screed remains unchanged.

direwolf-pgh
2013-08-22, 09:12 AM
it would be interesting to create a Hot Tuna Social Group and have everyone list out their recordings/want list

we've done this a few times before with excellent results. Social Groups can be found here (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/group.php?do=grouplist)
the content (posts and links) of these groups can be public or private :whistle: ya dig

paddington
2013-08-22, 09:16 AM
I was talking about this, from a few days ago, which is pretty much unchanged:

http://jormakaukonen.com/tour.php

There is nothing on the page you, and schmoe, linked to that seems pertinent to this discussion about Hot Tuna / Jorma's NAB status. It does spell out his anti-taping stance, and would seem to contradict the "taper friendly" portion of the message from Vanessa Kaukonen posted by direwolf-pgh in the second post of this thread. Perhaps you can illuminate me to what exactly was, in your words, recently reiterated about the anti-electronic sharing policy?

And how does this vary from the trading here of Todd Rundgren or Peter Rowan? They both had anti-electronic trading statements on their respective websites at one time, and both have stopped posting those policies, but neither have publicly stated a change in policy. If no longer posting an anti-electronic trading policy, without publicly announcing a change to that policy is reason enough to remove Rundgren and Rowan from the NAB list, why not Tuna?

All that being said, I realize "the decision of the judges is final". Thanks for hearing me out.

Late thought: The message you linked to and schmoe copied and pasted, has not changed in at least 2 years, it's just part of the "boilerplate" or "template" of the page they list upcoming tour dates, the tour dates were updated August 15th, but Jorma's screed remains unchanged.

yes, unchanged

aikowolf
2013-08-22, 10:30 AM
I was talking about this, from a few days ago, which is pretty much unchanged:

http://jormakaukonen.com/tour.php


I was talking more about the whole absurdity of trying to keep folks from trading these any way they want the cat is out of the bag - these guys should worry more about the private trackes like What. and others that are actually pirating :wave:

schmoe75
2013-08-22, 05:29 PM
There is nothing on the page you, and schmoe, linked to that seems pertinent to this discussion about Hot Tuna / Jorma's NAB status.
I posted to merely point out how big a douchebag that asshole is. Who the fuck stops people from taking pictures with their phone? A crusty old jackass who has completely lost touch with reality & technology, and for that, he should not be supported in any way.

daddyray
2013-08-22, 05:31 PM
shmoed!

arfarf
2013-08-22, 08:34 PM
I posted to merely point out how big a douchebag that asshole is. Who the fuck stops people from taking pictures with their phone? A crusty old jackass who has completely lost touch with reality & technology, and for that, he should not be supported in any way.

Yes, I get why you posted the link, and you make a good point about Jorma being out of touch.

I was trying to understand how James thought that link supported his position even though it made no mention of an electronic trading policy.

I just thought I'd be remiss if I didn't point out you had posted the same link.

@<hidden>: That Hot Tuna social group concept you brought up sounds like a good idea, thanks for the suggestion.

aikowolf
2013-08-22, 08:58 PM
I'd love to be a part of said group - 60+GB of Tuna and Jorma I have

direwolf-pgh
2013-08-22, 10:52 PM
Hot Tuna Social Group. Jump in and do your thing (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/group.php?groupid=94)

anyone can join but its not public to the internet. created in the spirit of fans getting together

dcbullet
2013-08-24, 01:44 AM
Hot Tuna who?

They should be lucky anyone wants to listen to them.

paddington
2013-08-24, 03:31 PM
pretty much what I was saying

but if he likes anonymity...

maybe its part of his art - remaining unknown

ballsdeep
2013-08-26, 03:17 AM
pretty sure I have a few uncirculated Tuna acoustic shows that took place here in Alaska, a couple from Anchorage on cd, and my Fairbanks analog masters from around '07 (they came twice in a 2-3 year span, don't remember off the top of my head)

paddington
2013-08-26, 09:54 AM
whatever you do, don't share them

ballsdeep
2013-08-27, 03:20 PM
whatever you do, don't share them


is there anywhere I can brag about having them and then tell people how stupid they are because they don't have them?

paddington
2013-08-27, 03:36 PM
sure TTD works for that :thumbsup

jpeace
2014-01-08, 01:55 PM
It's kind of interesting that a guy who basically plays blues standards and covers is so worried about his rights to the material. I seriously doubt Jorma has any intellectual or publishing rights to Death Don't Have No Mercy et al

MalFrie
2014-01-10, 02:32 AM
I am sure that if the 60`s Jorma, leader of the Underground, could see the 2014 version, Old Fart,He would be disgusted! "Up against the wall, MotherFuckers" - Indeed!!

jpeace
2014-02-22, 11:15 AM
Another interesting fact: I am friends with a local taper who is known as Big Daddy Buffalo. BDB is on friendly terms with Hot Tuna. I've got pictures of him with Jorma and crew that are recent and ones that are clearly many years ago. Some are of them partying in BDB's house. Jorma is totally supportive of taping. He hangs out with the tapers, even plays songs they request him to play. Any publicly stated policy is not that of the band at all. Jorma is all for the free trade of his shows, on this or any other site

schmoe75
2014-02-22, 12:22 PM
Except HIS website contradicts your opinion
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1922178#post1922178

jpeace
2014-02-22, 12:52 PM
I know. I've seen that. I'm just saying that that website contradicts what the man himself says. Jorma does not agree with those statements. He is very pro-taper and -trader.

CAF
2014-02-25, 12:14 AM
I've heard the policy was set down by his current wife/ manager, not Jorma.

Being married myself I can understand his situation exactly :-)

MalFrie
2014-03-01, 07:00 AM
Shades of "Mountain Girl"? :down:

vladsmythe
2014-03-01, 12:11 PM
The name of this thread - "It might be time to revisit Hot Tuna NAB status", says all we need to know.

For 6 months the issue has been revisited, and the answer is "No". Apparently TTD, Dime, and Lossless Legs have clarity of judgement. Other trackers serve this stuff up in generous portions, so it really shouldn't have any bearing on the few who actually collect these recordings. The Hot Tuna social group here at TTD http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/group.php?groupid=94 should be able to provide links to these treasures.

hippiedave
2014-03-31, 07:22 PM
how do you join? please/...