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View Full Version : Any tapers out there? Need some advice.


the dread
2013-03-23, 08:10 PM
I'm about to start my own taping and was wondering if you could offer any advice? I'm starting off with the Tascam DR-07 MK II.Anyone ever use one of these? I wanted the Edirol r09hr, but it's a bit too pricey for me. The recordings will be stealth recordings...what are the best types of mics to use? If I do attempt a soundboard recording, how do I go about approaching the sound guy?

Thanks in advance.

The Dread:wave:

JackDog
2013-03-23, 09:51 PM
Church Audio makes good mics that can easily be used for stealth taping. The best place to buy Church Audio is through his deals on http://www.taperssection.com/ and you can sometimes find used Church mics there. He also has an ebay store, but you can get better deals at taperssection. For soundboard recording I usually ask the band if it's cool first and then go to the soundguy with permission from them. You'll need to have your own cables to patch into the board, usually XLR's or 1/4" TRS.

trustthex
2013-03-24, 01:58 AM
Sound Professionals http://www.soundprofessionals.com also make some great mics; w/ a much more stable turn around time (sp-cmc-2, sp-cmc-4, sp-cmc-8, or sp-tfb-2). I am not knocking Chris, he's just a one man shop. Anyway, there are great recordings made with both types of equipment out there (on this site or the archive). Make sure to get a battery box (or preamp). Welcome to your new obsession. :wave:

AAR.oner
2013-03-25, 09:55 AM
^^what they said, esp the part about using a pre [or batt box at minimum]

my ears' personal preference tends toward the Church mics, or Sound Professionals line utilizing the DPA caps...ymmv

the dread
2013-04-02, 04:01 AM
thanks for the advice, guys. I'm thinking about the Behringer PS400.

P A U L
2013-04-04, 01:04 AM
thanks for the advice, guys. I'm thinking about the Behringer PS400.

You will need 2, if you are recording stereo...

http://www.behringer.com/assets/PS400_P0489_Left_View.jpg

I'd really look into what you're getting.

You need to try & get the best quality of compatible equipment possible, & in the smallest package. If you get the Church box & mic's, you'll be getting a very compact system that matches. There are others, but, at least look at what he offers, then look for similar.

JackDog
2013-04-04, 08:09 AM
I'd really look into what you're getting.
You need to try & get the best quality of compatible equipment possible, & in the smallest package. If you get the Church box & mic's, you'll be getting a very compact system that matches. There are others, but, at least look at what he offers, then look for similar.

PAUL said it all. Even though it's nice and cheap, the PS400 is too big for what it is. Church Audio makes a battery box that's not much bigger than a 9 volt battery (the CA Ugly), and his pre-amps are about the size of a pack of cigarettes (you would need a battery box or a pre-amp to power your mics). You'll have to wait about 3 months if you order them new from Church Audio, but if you go to taperssection.com you can usually find some used Church Audio equipment for sale. Here's what I bought when I first started taping in 2008:

(ignore the red circle)
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f97/JeremyLykins/100_1017b.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f97/JeremyLykins/TapingRig.jpg

P A U L
2013-04-04, 02:47 PM
One thing...

It's best if you can have the capsule heads @<hidden> the exact location (on multiple mic's). Even a spread of inches, adds a phase/timing issue. When people wear the mic's on their glasses, the head blocks out cross waves, so it's not as bad, but you do need to be mindful of the positioning of capsule heads.

trustthex
2013-04-04, 11:27 PM
One thing...

It's best if you can have the capsule heads @<hidden> the exact location (on multiple mic's). Even a spread of inches, adds a phase/timing issue. When people wear the mic's on their glasses, the head blocks out cross waves, so it's not as bad, but you do need to be mindful of the positioning of capsule heads.

WTF? This doesn't make sense. :hmm: Unless you are talking about XY, which is one of many recognized techniques.

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Mic-University/StereoTechniques.aspx

Read, rinse, repeat, then condition with

http://www.reddingaudio.com/downloads/Rycote%20Technical/The%20Stereophonic%20Zoom.pdf

Let soak in 2-3 readings, prepare for auto-magical increase in taper-fu success.



Stealth techniques are a whole different bag of tricks, but the best tapes still employ the same methods/microphone setups.

P A U L
2013-04-05, 01:23 AM
WTF? This doesn't make sense. :hmm: Unless you are talking about XY, which is one of many recognized techniques.

Actually makes plenty of sense...

From your source position (stage), the sound travels in all directions in the room. You have the direct sound that hits your microphones, but you also have sound that bounces off the walls & ceiling. Not so much the floor, because most likely, you have a few hundred/thousand people in front of you.

Now, at what speed does sound travel. Well, different frequencies travel at different speeds. So, you have direct hitting you 1st, then what bounces off the ceiling/walls will hit you at different speeds. Now, if you have your mic's spread apart, the sound from one wall will hit one mic 1st, & the other 2nd, while the opposing side wall's sound will hit the mic's in the opposite order.

The more reflected sounds you have coming in at different angles at different times, makes for a much muddier recording.

I have recorded using all the methods linked over a 25+ year period. I have designed room acoustics & sound systems for venues. Have engineered sound live & in studio.

The OP is looking to do stealth recording. There won't be using shotguns on boom stands, nor setup during soundcheck to monitor the results.

Currently, my favorite is using M/S & mixing 2 mono tracks to get a good clean stereo image.

Here's a sample:

Sample (http://pbprophoto.net/ZOOMH2nsample.mp3)

tonebloke
2013-04-06, 01:43 AM
Fellas. K.I.S.S. This guy is new so don't confuse him with taper technobable.

I use two stealth setups as standard and both give good results (without going into detail). If he gets useable gear and asks "private" questions about how to set himself up he'll be fine.

Hypnocracy
2013-04-07, 06:43 AM
My advice...have fun and never think about all the cash you are spending on gear...

:D

splumer
2013-04-08, 11:21 AM
One more word of advice from a 14-year veteran, plus audio pro: practice, practice, practice! If you have a friend who's in a bar band or something, ask if you can record them, and use the opportunity to test out your gear before the "big show." You can use that opportunity to test placement, levels, etc., as well as testing how your new gear works in the field and how easy it is to operate without being too obvious.

thebrew
2013-04-09, 02:47 AM
"....even the best laid plans often go astray...." don't fret if sometimes you get less than stellar results as you start out...the one time everything comes together will make it all worthwhile. Then strive to achieve that same mark again as you go....make notes mentally or otherwise....relax and have fun.

tonebloke
2013-04-09, 03:09 AM
/\ /\ What splumer and thebrew said!!! :wave:

the dread
2013-04-12, 06:51 PM
Thanks again for the info, guys. And sorry for my ignorance. I did not purchase the Behringer power supply. Again, as a newbie, I didn't understand what a phantom power supply was. I am using In Ear Binaural Microphones from Sound Professionals and purchased their 12V mini microphone power supply. Attempting my 1st taping this weekend.

JackDog
2013-04-13, 09:57 AM
Attempting my 1st taping this weekend.

Good luck! I Googled your recorder to see what you should set your gain at and found this:

"Peak Reduction function (optimized for music recording) automatically sets gain while recording"

...I don't know very much about recording, but the recorder automatically setting the gain may not be a good thing (or it could be the best thing ever, I don't know). And when looking at pics of it it looks like there's only a mic-in and no line-in:

"Plug your own microphone into the 1/8" mic/line input - the DR-07mkII will supply plug-in power for mics that require it!"

...so with that, I don't know if an external power supply is necessary. But like I said, I don't know very much about recording.

tonebloke
2013-04-13, 10:14 AM
"Plug your own microphone into the 1/8" mic/line input - the DR-07mkII will supply plug-in power for mics that require it!"



Only problem with doing that would be the faster draining of the internal power supply. Using external power for the mics (battery box/pre-amp) would lengthen the recording time.

Zdog628
2013-04-14, 08:43 PM
And just tape away like you own the place. I've been recording everything I go to since 1990 and have only been kicked out once. Actually, I wasn't let in so I blew it off.. it was U2.

Lately I've found that screwing around with electronics at shows isn't even raising eyebrows.
I don't even bother trying to "hide" gear because I'm more looked at when I'm digging around pockets and whatever else. I put my recorder in my shirt pocket, easy to check levels and I'm done. Batts in the pants pocket, cords up my shirt with mics on my glasses with a hat that provides no cover if you're actually looking.

Have fun, that's the key,
AZ